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Klaus Wegener (Offline)
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Default 07-12-2005, 11:58

Hello,

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Originally Posted by andy
Then how is China 0.9p? - with inclusive minutes and calling card? - then why not compare like with like?

In fact both Liechtenstein and China mobiles can be reached from inclusive minutes on O2
although it has nothing to do with GT-SIM (the original subject of this thread), just my 2 cents regarding this Riiing-discussion: you have to keep in mind that in Liechtenstein, there are two different mobile "routes": the "normal ones", like FL1 (+42379...) and a more expensive one ("+423 663"). As far as I darkly remember, the selling-rates for calls to +423 663 is little bit less than 29 Eurocent. This means, if an operator offers "+423 663" for less than 29 Cent, then he can not cover the charges, he has to pay additionally money, which he does not get back from the caller. When he offers "+423 663" for more than 29 Cent, than he earns. This means, "+423 663" is an international "premium number", more expensive than other mobile numbers. And this is, why Riiing can offer free incoming calls in many countries. Because (usually) the caller is paying the whole termination! Personally, I don't know how Enlinea & Co. can offer their cheap rates to +423 663. In my opinion, they pay more for the call than they get from their customers. If O2 UK has "unclusive minutes" to +423 663, then it is a "mix-calculation" and they hope, that not too many people call there....

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Klaus Wegener
   
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andy (Offline)
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Default 07-12-2005, 14:57

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus Wegener
...
If O2 UK has "unclusive minutes" to +423 663, then it is a "mix-calculation" and they hope, that not too many people call there....
Yes, I've got different tariffs with one operator for the different FL mobiles, one listed as personal rate, 25p and 27p. I think the 663 number is almost like an Austrian prefix on A1. It may be that some companies (including even BT for a while?) defined this as a landline number as it isn't in the mobiles list.

O2 isn't directly providing the facility, but callthrough numbers that are in the inclusive minutes, and one provider has/had a tariff mistake.
   
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0700700 (Offline)
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Default 08-12-2005, 01:26

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
Yes, I've got different tariffs with one operator for the different FL mobiles, one listed as personal rate, 25p and 27p. I think the 663 number is almost like an Austrian prefix on A1. It may be that some companies (including even BT for a while?) defined this as a landline number as it isn't in the mobiles list.

O2 isn't directly providing the facility, but callthrough numbers that are in the inclusive minutes, and one provider has/had a tariff mistake.
spoke to Orange regarding this and kinda tried to explain them why i was particularly interested in calling +423663 .... anyways since the guy could not give me a definite answer i asked for them to send a message to the their techinical support team to figure out the pricing...


Anyways according to them it doesnt matter what type of numer it is , as long as it starts with the +423 prefix its charged as 20p/min and if you buy your calling abroad minutes beforehand it drops to 16p/min



Andy sorry to be kinda of offtopic but i was wondering if you could let give me a quick rundown from your research on calling rates for +423 (RIING) and +354 (9mobile)... i am only interested in mobile phone tarriffs for calling those numbers, as i am always running about
   
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AndreA (Offline)
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Default 13-12-2005, 00:05

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus Wegener
This means, "+423 663" is an international "premium number", more expensive than other mobile numbers. And this is, why Riiing can offer free incoming calls in many countries.
+423.663 is NOT a premium number!

It's a normal mobile prefix but some "smart" operators have a extra-fee for that... for example in Europe Budget Telecom has a very cheap price to FL mobiles.
About high prices I think that's only a commercial strategy. Maybe someone is afraid about U-M products and prefer to have high tariff plans to +423.663. Simply.

P.S.: last week I called Effendi on his riiing number from my Orangeclick account... it was a normal national call


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pschi (Offline)
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Default 14-12-2005, 14:43

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreA
+423.663 is NOT a premium number!

It's a normal mobile prefix but some "smart" operators have a extra-fee for that... for example in Europe Budget Telecom has a very cheap price to FL mobiles.
About high prices I think that's only a commercial strategy. Maybe someone is afraid about U-M products and prefer to have high tariff plans to +423.663. Simply.

P.S.: last week I called Effendi on his riiing number from my Orangeclick account... it was a normal national call
Well, just to clarify this, here are the rates that Telecom Companies are asking for the termination of +423 663:

Belgacom: 0,34 /min
German Telecom: 0,30
Swisscom: 0,31
Telia Sweden: 0,65
France Telecom: 0,36
Telecom D?veloppement (France): 0,31
Cable&Wireless (UK): 0,32
Telecom Austria: 0,30

The transiting fee is normaly rather low, so the 0,29 for United Mobile as terminating fee seems to be realistic.

Any service for less than the terminating fee must be very unstable.
Bouygues Telecom e.g. has closed all phone calls to +423 !
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Klaus Wegener (Offline)
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Default 14-12-2005, 15:38

Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by pschi
Well, just to clarify this, here are the rates that Telecom Companies are asking for the termination of +423 663:

Belgacom: 0,34 /min
German Telecom: 0,30
Swisscom: 0,31
Telia Sweden: 0,65
France Telecom: 0,36
Telecom D?veloppement (France): 0,31
Cable&Wireless (UK): 0,32
Telecom Austria: 0,30

The transiting fee is normaly rather low, so the 0,29 for United Mobile as terminating fee seems to be realistic.

Any service for less than the terminating fee must be very unstable.
Bouygues Telecom e.g. has closed all phone calls to +423 !
thanks for confirming, what I tried to explain earlier in that thread. The expression "international premium number" might not be very exact, but it could explain what I meant: due to high termination fee, UML is able to offer free incoming calls in many countries.

And by the way: in German Television, there was also missuse with "+423663" numbers. Some TV call-in shows used such kind of number, but they "catched" the call before it reached Liechtenstein (?) and got the high termination-fee. That's the reason, why German Telekom had blocked "+423663" two times this year. So it is a kind of "premium number"!

Regards,
Klaus
   
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Default 14-12-2005, 16:15

In the USA, AT&T long distance which used to be the standard has a $1/month foreign long distance plan.....calls to Liechtenstein are 10?/US per minute and the surcharge to Liechtenstein mobile is 1?/minute making a total of 11?/minute which is by far the cheapest rate for any mobiles in Europe....most of the European mobiles surcharge 22?/minute US for mobiles...thus calls to UK mobiles on this plan are 30?/minute (8? to UK and 22? surcharge)...I know this as I use call forwarding via AT&T off of my landline when I am in Europe.
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0700700 (Offline)
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Default 14-12-2005, 17:16

thanks for all these replies but can you tell me what this termination rate means in practice, is this what the operators pay one another ?????



still waiting for andys feedback thou :meh:
   
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andy (Offline)
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Default 14-12-2005, 18:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0700700

still waiting for andys feedback thou? :meh:
about what? - you asked for cheap ways to call 09 mobile - I said Call18866, and pointed out that the 2p/min I quoted applied to the CS landline number not mobiles

this isn't really the forum to discuss a wide range of cheap call providers in UK, especially after you cast doubts on other remarks I've made, including about O2 payg tariffs


There are several cheap call providers for FL mobile, but not as many as for other countries. The problems are that some account-based ones do not cover it (various Finarea companies - 1899, 18866, 18185). Others methods do, but use carriers that are not 100% reliable (many of the 0871 callthrough numbers) - and others have migrated to higher tariffs. And some mobile call-through numbers (eg on 07744 number) have discontinued it as their revenue could not cover the higher cost. If you can use VoIP at home, look at some of the Finarea operations - about 7p to 10p per minute. And you could use Enlinea or CBW of course; Enlinea's 12c charge from US is equivalent to about 7p, and you can call there for 0.5p to 2p per minute. Or use their UK 0800 number and PIN for 11p per minute.

All of this apart though, the UK mobile networks have good tariffs for either direct to foreign mobiles (Orange, O2 ITS), or 0871 call-through numbers (T-mobile [?] and 3) of 10p to 20p per minute. There was a loophole/paradox of one providers 0871 number not working, but its 0844 number did, supporting a suspicion they defined it as a landline number (or were using different carriers for the two numbers), but the last two times I attempted this it didn't work. But again, I use an 0844 number to reach the Enlinea routing number, and this is from the inclusive minutes on O2, so 7p/min on top.

I want to see more VoIP providers doing call diversion, as you could use this from a mobile - use your incoming number to divert out again, without any PC use - or also possible with other hardware at home - but some of these have raised tariffs to FL mobile a lot.
   
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AndreA (Offline)
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Default 14-12-2005, 19:02

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus Wegener
And by the way: in German Television, there was also missuse with "+423663" numbers. Some TV call-in shows used such kind of number, but they "catched" the call before it reached Liechtenstein (?) and got the high termination-fee. That's the reason, why German Telekom had blocked "+423663" two times this year. So it is a kind of "premium number"!
I understood... but I think that it's a german problem :construction:

Also in arabic TVs I saw a lot of times RSM numbers (+37 and a syrian friend told me that for them calling San Marino is very expensive. But this is strange too, for our (as for a Swiss with FL) it's a simple national call not a "fake" premium number.


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