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bbob (Offline)
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Default yackie mobile review - 25-10-2007, 10:51

I also used the free sim trial yackie gave as it is a good chance to test their service.

I sent a mail to ask for a voucher giving them proof of purchase of a now non working manx card. The same day I got response and a voucher number.

Ordered the card online, selected a local number and they offer a wide range of local numbers. For some countries like Holland for every area code for example USA some area codes in some states. I selected a US based number.

Some days later I received the SIM by mail.

The number is a +354 number, put the sim in my phone and it worked without problems. Called the US number and the call got forwarded to the cell phone.
When calling the US number it took about 10 seconds before I heard a ring tone but than the cell phone would also ring. Caller ID of the ringing phone was visible on the cell phone.

With the account came a Voip DID number which could be forwarded to voip, sim, 1 of the 2 or both.

I tired to find the settings how to login to the voip account using a softphone but no luck. I could not find the settings anywhere on their site. I would need the sip address of their voip server. Can you supply me this information or put it on the website. In faq you have answers for gsm but nothing for voip.

I also looked at their rates for making call through their voip system. The rates are not the lowest and not the highest in the voip market.

The charge for incoming calls through a voip number is $0,29 euro 0,20 which is ok.

EU law now has maximum rates for receiving calls: http://ec.europa.eu/information_soci...l/index_en.htm

2007 incoming is maximum 0.24 euro (without local vat) 2008 0.22 euro 2009 0.19 euro

Maximum roaming rates when making a call inside the EU but outside your home country, 2007 maximum 0.49 euro (without local vat) 2008 0.46 euro 2009 0.43 euro

So when you have a say German cell phone and you are in France and someone calls you on your German Cell number you pay 0.24 euro per minute. When making a call using your German cell phone in France you pay maximum 0.49 euro (without vat) to fixed and mobile numbers inside the EU.

So at the moment the rate for yackie of $0.29 per minute seems reasonable as it is a bit cheaper than the EU maximum. This said using your own voip system like pbxes and forward call the rate for receiving calls can be lower 0.11 tot 0.14 eurocents. But this is a do it yourself solution which is not plug and play.

So incoming rate on a DID number to your mobile seems ok. 1 DID number comes with the account but you can add many more. If you add did numbers they will cost you around $9 per month or $108 per year.
In my opinion this is fairly expensive for DID numbers. In Some countries you can get your DID number for free, like Germany, UK, in other countries like Holland you pay 10 euro per month, Belgium has them also for around 10 euro. Paying $108/Euro 77 per year for a voip DID number is just to expensive.

Yackie call rates.

As said above the EU has maximum rates now which will be lowered the next 2 year to a maximum of euro 0.43 per minute (without local vat) in 2009.

When looking at the yackie rates these are really to high !.

My thinking on this is very simple. The charge $0.29 per minute for incoming call through your voip did number to your cell phone + voip ratex is what calles should cost.

Take for example Mexico.

Incoming =free or 0.29 through a DID number
Calling the Netherlands from mexico is $ 1.89 to mobile and $ 1.79 to fixed line.
Making a yacki voip call to the netherlands is $ 0.024 for fixed lines and 0.26 for mobile.
So I would think the rate would be $0.29 + $ 0.024 / 0.26 = $0.314 / $ 0.55

Example Germany

Incoming =free or 0.29 through DID number
Calling France from Germany is $ 0.59 to fixed and mobile
Making a yacki voip call to france is $ 0.024 for fixed line and 0.271 to mobile.
So I would think the rate would be $0.29 + $0.024 / 0.271 = $0.314 / $ 0.561

Example Australia
Incoming =free or 0.29 through DID number
Calling UK from austraila is $ 0.49 to fixed and mobile
Making a yacki voip call to UK is $ 0.024 for fixed line and 0.286 to mile.
So in this case the rate to mobile would be $0.29 + $0.286 = $ 0.576
In this example yacki is cheaper to mobile compared to $0.29+voip rate !

I can give more and more examples where it shows that the rates for outgoing calls on your yackie phone a very high in most examples. Some countries and only to mobile they are lower than the $0.29+voip rate to mobile.

On the yackie website you can have a rate list by saying the country you are in an the country you are calling you. What I would like to see is an overview of the countries with free of 0.29 (through) DID incoming calls.

Also I does not state how that rates are charged, per minute per second, per 30 seconds or 1 minute and than per second.

You can call the 105 number for customer support but what is the rate for doing this or is it free of charge ? Same question for the number 108 for voicemail ?

So to conclude the review.

Positive

- Order processing was very smooth and fast.
- Choice from many DID numbers worldwide.
- Have incoming numbers being forwarded to your cell phone for $0.29 in many countries, which is an acceptable rate (lower is only possible with do it yourself solution)
- Many countries have no incoming call charges when calling the +354 number directly.

Negative

- Outgoing call rates are to expensive
- Incoming calls of $0.29 are charged per minute not second.
- DID numbers have a too high monthly charge (typical $ 9 per number per month)

Would I use yackie ?

For incoming calls yackie has a plug and play solution to forward a DID number to your cellphone so people can call you on a local number (local charges for them) and you pay $0.29 per minute. So yes for receiving calls yackie is a good solution.

Four making calls I would not use yackie as their rates are to high. I gave an example of their voip rates and I think call rates should be the $0.29 incoming cost + the voip rates the destination you are calling. Yackie is although using far higher rates in most cases (expect some mobile destinations). Even a novice user could use a callback solution to set cheaper outgoing rates.

Because of the many free incoming countries I will probably use the sim in combination with pbxes and voicetrading and setup my own did forward and callback.
Using this solution forwarded DID calls will only cost me euro 0.114 / $ 0.16 per minute.
pbxes pro also has the callback option which makes calls using voip possible. Outgoing rates would be the $ 0.16 + voip rates. For fixed lines to most countries this is between $ 0.015 and 0.05 per minute and mobile $ 0.15 to $ 0.35 so rates will be between $ 0.175 - $ 0.21 to fixed line and $0.31 to $ 0.51 per minute to mobile.

Update: tried to call the +354-380 number using betamax voip and can't reach the number. I get an asian lady saying callie is busy please try later. This makes me reconsider using this number for my own callback, let alone using it at all. My current um+ solution works fine for the moment.
Worst case I could callback the DID number pay yackie $0.29 for connection to the sim and have my pbxes dialtone. I would only use this solution when um+ is offline or has problems.

Last edited by bbob; 25-10-2007 at 16:58..
   
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YackieMobile (Offline)
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Default 25-10-2007, 12:04

VEry good analyse, excepted for the outgoing call

Can you explain me, how you want have an outgoing call for .....0.29$ + the voip cost ?

Because no one SIM card work like that on this market, UM, MOBAL, US etc etc

The incoming is when you receive a call, OKI? free if it is on your 354 number in most countries, and you need to pay 0.29 $ on the DID ( who is what the Europeean regulation have requested in Europe FOR ONLY the Europeean Operator !!!, ALL others will pay 1 $ or more )

The Outgoing call is when you will ake a call, SO ??

First cost the SMS trigger ( we dont charge you, But we still have to pay it )

You receive the call Back ( one Mobile Terminaison need to be paid ) and we reach your correspondant ( one other Mobile Terminaison need to be paid and we dont use a Voip terminaison, but a GSM for a mobile )

So our cost are Not necesseraly 0.02 $.....

We charge 0.49 $ for one out going call on a mobile ( 0.38 Euros ) who is a very good rates for a traveler coming from ASIA, US, etc etc and a good rates too for one european citizen, and one of the best rates for a mobile

If you add to this The local DID availlable with your SIM, the possibility to use the VOIP ( you have a softphone allready pre setup on our web site Bobb, you can use it, just need your user and password, but the SIP account is *** ** ** @ sip.yackie.com
) and with a GSM / WiFI phone or a phone and a PDA or a Notebook.....You have a complete site of services

We bill per minute, and we will release one new Option for the US market and the South americain market ( specialy Mexico, Argentina, USS and Canada )

Any questions.....Shoot


We make your Money Mobile

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Sebastian (Offline)
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Default Got vaucher as well - 25-10-2007, 12:37

I've applied for a free SIM as well and got vaucher the same day, and the confirmation email that my SIM has been shipped the very next day. So far, so good

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbob View Post
The number is a +354 number, put the sim in my phone and it worked without problems. Called the US number and the call got forwarded to the cell phone.
When calling the US number it took about 10 seconds before I heard a ring tone but than the cell phone would also ring. Caller ID of the ringing phone was visible on the cell phone.
Does the Caller ID work for an outgoing call as well? We all here are interested in callback solutions

Quote:
I tired to find the settings how to login to the voip account using a softphone but no luck. I could not find the settings anywhere on their site. I would need the sip address of their voip server. Can you supply me this information or put it on the website. In faq you have answers for gsm but nothing for voip.
Here's what they've sent me: SIP username/number: 6xxxxxx, password is the one I have used for registration, and the SIP proxy is at sip.yackie.com (aka sip.varphonex.com). Still haven't tested those, though.
   
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bbob (Offline)
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Default 25-10-2007, 12:56

explain about outgoing cost:

As you said you have to trigger the callback via sms and this cost moeny. You could choose to have a starting rate say 0.25 euro per call like UM does.

Ok once the callback is triggered a call is made to the SIM. This call should not cost more than $0.29 per minute as this is what you charge for forwarding a did call to the sim.

This is the cost for making the connection to the sim, but not going further. In a normal callback situation I would than get the dialtone of the callback and can dial the number I want and the callback rates.

To give an example I could use a betamax service and sms them the number I would like to call. They would call me back (the charge the rate for calling a +354-38xx number. They would also call the number I stated in my sms and would connect the 2 calls. The 2second part of the call would also be charged against their voip rates. 2 rates added together will give the toal rate.
Works simular like your system, sms to trigger the callback and connection to the number you want to call.
Andy has given some examples of this on the forum.

In my example I am using pbxes to make the call. I trigger the callback by calling a did number which recognises my mobile number. I get a busy tone and receive a callback. There is no cost for doing this as there is no sms and i receive a busy tone.
I get calledback on my +354-38xx number (which cost me around 0.11-0.14 euro) than I get a dialtone of the pbx and call dial any number through voip at voip rates.

Another example www.callbackworld.com select iceland cellular as calling from and than example france cellular. cost $ 0.34 per minute or $0.15 per minute for fixed lines.

I understand your view that it is cheaper than other normal carriers and visitors from asia it's a cheaper solution. Also I understand that other companies have simular service has simular rates but explain me what a do it yourself solution like pbxes or betamax provider callback is a lot cheaper than the solution you are offering.
In case of betamax the service is simular also triggered by sms but rates are a lot lower.
But i can understand that you want to make money. The problem is that most of your customers will see the service as a cheaper solution compared to what they are allready using. Here on the forum I think we go deeper into what is possible and what is really the cheapest route. Things like betamax sms callback or callbackworld or do it yourself pbxes are than possible to lower the cost over more.
I my view knowing the alternatives I can use your service for outgoing calls is to expensive, (like many other providers) for most people not knowing the alternatives your service is cheaper than what they are paying now.


Thanks for the info of voip. I was allready using the express talk package but it would still be helpfull to add the sip settings to you site for people than want to connect using their own softphone of wifi cellphone.

Bill per minute please state this under the rates on your site.
   
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bbob (Offline)
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Default 25-10-2007, 13:01

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
Does the Caller ID work for an outgoing call as well? We all here are interested in callback solutions
Yes called id works for outgoing calls, that said the caller will see the +354-38xxx number.

That said the yackie solution really promotes the use of a DID number to call and forward to your sim.

What I would like to see it that the user would be able to set the outgoing caller id to one of the DID numbers. So whenever you make an outgoing call on your cell e the caller id would show the DID number. Technically this should be possible to do.

As you said we are interested in callback solution. My post here above allready gives some examples on how callback solutions are cheaper than the yackie solution at the moment.
   
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Sebastian (Offline)
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Default Nice - 25-10-2007, 14:58

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbob View Post
Yes called id works for outgoing calls, that said the caller will see the +354-38xxx number.
Ah, very well, then. That solves the pain I was having with IoM card, so I ended up carrying two cellphones: a regular T-mobile used to initiate the callback since it gives the caller ID, and the IoM to receive the callback itself.

So, all in all, this looks like a very decent offer. If you don't mind giving up your airtime credit you can be called on the (landline) DID, otherwise +354 mobiles can be reached via webcalldirect.com for 11 ct/min (source: http://backsla.sh/betamax ; however not all services support SIP calls).

NB, at one point in time I was also using some homebrewed solutions for a "dialtone" callback, ie. you call a number, your service calls you back giving you the dialtone to dial out. However, I haven't found the DTMF to be reliable enough and it was sort of frustrating "now it works now it doesn't" experience. So eventually I gave up and took 20-odd Italian DIDs at www.euteliavoip.com for free, and registered them through an asterisk instance on a dedicated box. Since 99% of time I call a well-known set of numbers (family, office, friends), I have 1-1 mapping between an Italian DID and the number I want to call to. Asterisk responds with "Busy" command to all incoming calls and triggers the callback via one of the betamax services Web interface.
   
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bbob (Offline)
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Default 25-10-2007, 15:13

as you said the dtmf tones can be a problems. I have used UM with my home callback and never had any problems with dtmf tones.

Than I switched to manx card and using pbxes and from time time time had some problems with dtmf tones not coming through. 1 month before manx shut down the dtmf codes would not come thru at all !!! and callback was impossible.

Now I am using UM+ with callback and no problem for the DTMF tones. I have not tried Yackie with DTMF tones and Callback, but it is on my list to do.

The potential problem with dtmf tone probably comes from compression that some operators are using. It seemed to me that manx was using to much compression making it the dtmf tones would not come thru. I tested the callback and dtmf allways using betamax and Um+ came thru and Manx did not. As this is not a betamax problems it must be the carrier that causes the problem.

Callbackworld has some great ratex on iceland mobile, seems very low and competitive.
   
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Default 25-10-2007, 16:33

Keep in mind that betamax carrier do not always connect to +354380 numbers. I would not consider it a good solution. Other voip carriers have the same problem too. Also the price quoted for webcalldirect is without VAT
   
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bbob (Offline)
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Default 25-10-2007, 16:53

you are right, just tried calling the +354-380 number with betamax. Even voicetrading premium route did not work at the moment and I got an asian girl saying to me the callie is busy try again later.
Tried it with internetcalls and voicetrading. My normal dutch cell phone would connect whithout any problems.
Knowing this I don't know if this sim will be a useable solution for my own callback. Um+ is still working and works well in the european countries I normally work in.

Worst case I could callback my did number, pay yackie or $0.29 and have my pbx dialtone and rates. To fixed numbers this would still be cheaper than their rates, to mobile numbers it would depend on the country.
   
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Default 25-10-2007, 19:08

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbob View Post
as you said the dtmf tones can be a problems. I have used UM with my home callback and never had any problems with dtmf tones.

Than I switched to manx card and using pbxes and from time time time had some problems with dtmf tones not coming through. 1 month before manx shut down the dtmf codes would not come thru at all !!! and callback was impossible.

Now I am using UM+ with callback and no problem for the DTMF tones. I have not tried Yackie with DTMF tones and Callback, but it is on my list to do.

The potential problem with dtmf tone probably comes from compression that some operators are using. It seemed to me that manx was using to much compression making it the dtmf tones would not come thru. I tested the callback and dtmf allways using betamax and Um+ came thru and Manx did not. As this is not a betamax problems it must be the carrier that causes the problem.

Callbackworld has some great ratex on iceland mobile, seems very low and competitive.
Enlinea is a tad lower and worked extremely well for a friend to whom I loaned my O9 sim this past July in Italy, Greece and Croatia.
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