SaverSim and Wizz

[bbob]

It's nice to see another supplier here on the forum but again from his name it's not clear he is a supplier not is there a signature to say he is a supplier.

moderators / administrators please do something about this so it's clear for everyone who is a supplier. Not everyone want's to ready every post of a user to see if he is a user or supplier.

@ Roscoe232

11 Fair use Policy
Bruin Communications operates a fair usage policy for its Wizz SaverSIM® product in relation to inbound calls. If free inbound calls exceed paid for outbound calls by a ratio of 5 to 1 over a period of ???????then a charge of 10 eurocents per minute will apply to those inbound calls. If misuse continues to occur where the customer if making no outbound calls Bruin reserves the right to disconnect users.

I am missing the period here What period do you messure, 1 month, 2 month, 3 month. Please be clear about this. In your previous post you say a period of time which is a non-statement as it does not say anything.

Fair Use policy - this is exactly that. We cannot provide a service that makes us no money! BUT it doesn't mean after every 4 calls inbound you are charged for them, just that over a period of time if the inbound so heavily outweigh the outbound we have to charge. We had a customer who took 1500 inbound minutes for free and made 3 outbound! WE would go out of business if we allowed that.

I get your point but again your are not very clear and this statement has no value whatsoever. Your terms state 5 to 1 and here you give an example of a user having 1500 minutes. Minutes is something different than calls. So what ratio do you monitor minutes or calls.

Say I have 50 inbound calls each 60 minutes = 3000 minutes but I make 12 outbound calls of just 1 minute. The ration inbound outbound calls is still 50:12 = 5:1 but minutewise it's 3000 : 12 = 1:250

Again you created misunderstanding on how you monitor.

By giving comments like this you are giving reader here an impressions that you might be flexible about the ratio but you give no idea on how flexible. Also your terms state 5:1 so whenever you want you can always refer to these and say a user has 80 inbound en 10 outbound you can disconnect him. Or do you monitor minutes in combination with calls ?

Than if you do disconnect you also take away the credit. This is something I really don't like as it's money the user has paid and you just take it away.

[snidely]

Bbob -
I think all carriers have what is commonly called a "fair use clause". Eg. Most carriers will terminate you (i mean terminate your service) if much of your use is off teir own network and you are roaming a lot on another carrier. They don't state hard and fast rules.
I thought Ross made it clear he represents/sells the service in question.

...mike

[bbob]

Originally Posted by snidely

Bbob -
I think all carriers have what is commonly called a "fair use clause". Eg. Most carriers will terminate you (i mean terminate your service) if much of your use is off teir own network and you are roaming a lot on another carrier. They don't state hard and fast rules.
I thought Ross made it clear he represents/sells the service in question.

...mike

Mike, you might think it's common but lots of other carriers don't have this clause !

The fact that there are rules written down in the terms state that there are rules. It's posted here that they are flexible about that, but legally a statement like that does not mean anything as they can shut you down based on their terms.
My point is that they should be clear as fair use means something for you and might mean something different for me. Some provider do have limits so write them down and don't say you are flexible about these limits because that means that you give the impression there are other limits. Just as simple as that.
In this thread there is written down a limit which according to the supplier is not really a limit, at least he gives that impression. Also the limit is unclear about the time period in which they measure this limit.
I like companies that are clear about terms and limits. As a user you know what the limit is (if there is any) and there is no dicussion.
Being unclear will only give reason for a discussion, like now

As for Ross making it clear he represents/sells the serivce yes he does but as I said when he would post another thread or now in this thread no one than knows he is a supplier unless they read all his posts.

I keep repeating myself, it should be clear to everyone who is a user and who is a supplier. Users should not have to read every post from a user to find out he is a supplier. Either his/her username should have part of his companyname or in his/her signature there should be a reference to the company. This is easy and makes clear to everyone who is who.

Some examples, I have seen a username cloud9, easyroam, yackie and so on. It's clear that these users are suppliers.

[John247]

As someone who knows Ross i can 100% confirm that as he states he is one of the company directors behind the service. Why on earth would he state that if not true?

In relation to an exhorbitant ratio of inbound to outbound calls i am i total agreement. They (and indeed no one) earns any profit from free inbound calls. They are offered as the USP of the Global SIMs and grant discounted outbound calls in many destinations compared to normal MNOs.

As someone who has never posted before i have read this forum for a few years. I have seen open boasting of 50/1 inbound to outbound calls. Terms and Conditions are there for a reason and this type of customer is not wanted by any suppliers as they present zero profit margin for all and a loss for others.

John

[bbob]

John you are right and I would not doubt if Ross is of the directors. I only point out that it should be clear who is a supplier and who not. This should be enforced by the admin and mods here. So this comment is more meant towards the admin en mod here that once and for all they do something to seperate users and suppliers.

As for inbound outbound ratio, if those are the rules those are the rules but be clear about thim. I repeat myself in the terms it's mentioned period of time, just specify that what period of time.

You own words are "Terms are there for a reason" Again I repeat myself, if the terms state 5:1 ratio over a period of time than don't give the impression that you are flexible about that ratio.

Make clear statements about ratio, period of time etc.

[snidely]

Bbob - Agree that his name and/or sig line should indicate his connection w. the company. I should have realized you weren't in the U.S. when I made the "fair use" comment.
"Fair use" has been a common clause in many areas here, forever. Eg. Landline companies put in that clause decades ago to prevent users from installing equipment that could compromise the system. Internet providers have long put that in to prevent a user from "over using" system resources 24/7. ATT, T-Mobile and some smaller GSM carriers all have roaming agreements with each other. Roaming is limited to areas your native carrier doesn't cover. They all have clauses that if you are using a disproportionate amount of your minutes off your home carrier's network they can terminate your service. This is rarely done, but there have been posts on various forums where it has happened.

John247 - Welcome to the forum.
You are wrong in your statement that no one makes money on incoming calls. The IOM provider that is used in this case is cleaning up. I have always assumed that the LARGE termination costs imposed by virtually all carriers outside the U.S., Canada and a few other countries all go to the carriers. Somebody can correct me if i'm wrong. As I mentioned above, it would be more fair if they shared some of that largess w. "resellers" like you. Unfortunately they don't.
We in the U.S. are spoiled in that it costs no more to call a cell phone than a landline. We can get unlimited calling, incoming/outgoing for under $100/mo. T-Mobile includes unlimited SMS w. that. Discount carriers that only cover limited geographical areas charge $40/mo. for unlimited voice. An ever increasing number of Americans have given up their landlines. You "foreigners" couldn't do this.
The fact that overseas cell carriers charge 10 times (or more) than a landline to terminate a call seems outrageous to most Americans.
I should mention extra charges for long distance within the U.S. have all but disappeared.
End of rant.

...mike

[John247]

Mike,

Thanks for the welcome to the forum.

You state that "The IOM carrier is cleaning up". In callback do you realise how expensive the A leg can be? Check the best termination you can find to a Bulgarian mobile for instance. Most callback operators offer free inbound in Europe and beyond and in some instances a small profit is made on inbound (if called in peak times). I have used Bulgaria as an example and with all inbound calls nobody meakes a bean of profit and some organisations take a big loss hit.

Add on top of that unconnected B legs where the callback operator still has to pick up the bill for the expensive connected A leg.

Take all of this into account and please understand why i and others take dislike to inviduals who totally abuse the system.

Thanks

John

[dg7feq]

Hi John,
i can 100% understand your position.
The problem i have with many providers is that they put a huge sign "FREE INCOMING IN XXX COUNTRIES" on the website -- and a limitation ratio or whatever in the smallprint of the smallprint in the imprint.

Free incoming is free incoming. No matter if 1 minute or 10000 minutes.
Otherwise you can write "100 free incoming minutes per month" or "5 free incoming minutes for every minute of outgoing calls" or something like that.

The same discussion was here with internet providers who offer a data FLAT RATE but start to whine if a user uses 500 GB a month. These now have to name it "fair use flatrate" and quote the traffic cap clearly on the 1st page of the offer.

Chris

[VladS]

Why not offer a direct toll bypass system for your customers over IP?!

I've asked several international MVNOs for an IP based (SIP, H.323 etc) termination mechanism where I would pay them for the incoming calls rather than my long distance carrier. Quite a few of un on this forum run our own little IP PBX where we forward a national DID to one of the Betamax brand carriers.

This is just my two cents of the day.

[snidely]

Originally Posted by John247

Mike,

Thanks for the welcome to the forum.

You state that "The IOM carrier is cleaning up". In callback do you realise how expensive the A leg can be? Check the best termination you can find to a Bulgarian mobile for instance. Most callback operators offer free inbound in Europe and beyond and in some instances a small profit is made on inbound (if called in peak times). I have used Bulgaria as an example and with all inbound calls nobody meakes a bean of profit and some organisations take a big loss hit.

Add on top of that unconnected B legs where the callback operator still has to pick up the bill for the expensive connected A leg.

Take all of this into account and please understand why i and others take dislike to inviduals who totally abuse the system.

Thanks

John

John -
Explain to this dense person what happens to the money the IOM carrier collects when a caller dials your IOM number? I am sure the amount that is collected is more than enough (with a sizable profit margin) to deliver the call to Bulgaria et al. If the country called is a "high price termination country" (Cuba is an example) the price charged by the IOM carrier - or any other carrier - is much higher.
All carriers have a rate chart of what it costs you to receive calls in various countries. Normally it is based on their actual costs - other times it is based on what they think they can gouge.
A prime example is Costa Rica. Costa Rica has somewhat low termination when dialing both landline and cellular. Most cell carriers charge $2/min. or more when the cost to terminate to both landline and cell is about 5 cents.

Eg. T-Mobile U.S. (actually its forerunners) 10 years ago charged 29 cents LD charge to call most first world countries (both landline and cell). They also charged 29 cents a min. for incoming when roaming in those countries. About 3 years ago they more than tripled the roaming charge to 99 cents. LD calling to those countries was raised to 69 cents/min. - altho you can pay $5/mo. to get discounted rates of 6 to 9 cents.

Since Bulgaria is a high cost termination country, i'm sure it costs an IOM user more to to roam (and get an incoming call) in Bulgaria than France. As a reseller of IOM service you should be charging more. However, the IOM carrier keeps all that money. That's what isn't fair.


...mike