Is UM the best for this...

TheMadBrewer · **Is UM the best for this... -** 11-07-2007, 07:58

UM seems to be out of favor this days with the prepaidgms.net community. I haven't been traveling abroad for the past 4 months so I haven't had much experience with all the recent problems folks have been having. As far as I can tell though, they will still fit my needs best for a trip this fall. But I thought I'd seek the wisdom of the collective first (unlike lots of communities -- offline as well as online -- this one seems to be smarter collectively than individually

)

Anyway, this fall a fairly large group of us (8-10, maybe more) will be doing a serious beer trip thru Europe: Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Austria. At least 4 of us (and maybe more) will have unlocked world GSM phones. I'm looking for a way we can stay in touch as various subgroups split off for a day or two (can you believe it -- some folks would rather visit museums and cathedrals rather than breweries!). From the international SIMs that help support PPGSM as far as I can tell only UM has reasonable "subscriber-to-subscriber" rates. The others seem to charge it as a call to a home country mobile.

Since I already have a UM SIM I was leaning that way, but with all the recent reported problems I'm not adverse to switching. So do any of your international SIMs have really good subscriber to subscriber rates?

As I side note, my take on the increase in FL termination fees: Even a year or so ago I would thought it a disaster. But I've been traveling with a PC (a fairly light HP TC1100 tablet) and even the mom-and-pop hotels I often stay have free (or cheap) wi-fi, I've been finding myself using VOIP from my hotel room rather then UM/CBW anyway. UM/CBW was nice if I needed to reach somebody while out and about, but I found it was generally easier (and cheaper!) to use voip. Most of the people that need to reach me in Europe are clients with urgent problems and they don't seem to mind (or at least haven't complained) about the cost of calls to UM. I'll still keep my CBW to use with my national SIMs and also the toll free access numbers (and my toll free number as well).

Przemolog · 11-07-2007, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMadBrewer

From the international SIMs that help support PPGSM as far as I can tell only UM has reasonable "subscriber-to-subscriber" rates. The others seem to charge it as a call to a home country mobile.

Since I already have a UM SIM I was leaning that way, but with all the recent reported problems I'm not adverse to switching. So do any of your international SIMs have really good subscriber to subscriber rates?

Don't forget the 25 cents setup fee in UM.
You'll really pay 64 cents for 1 minute, 1.03 euro for 2 minutes, 1.42 for 3 minutes. For short calls (up to 2 minutes) Travelsim with no setup fee, 50 cents rate to Estonia and free incoming calls is better. Perhaps some Manx SIM might be better but check it for yourself

.

TheMadBrewer · 11-07-2007, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Don't forget the 25 cents setup fee in UM.
You'll really pay 64 cents for 1 minute, 1.03 euro for 2 minutes, 1.42 for 3 minutes. For short calls (up to 2 minutes) Travelsim with no setup fee, 50 cents rate to Estonia and free incoming calls is better. Perhaps some Manx SIM might be better but check it for yourself

.

Well I checked Belgium first and it's .69 euro to call Estonia from there -- didn't check the others but should have. And it wasn't clear to me from their website whether mobiles were included in their rates (i.e. .50 euro to Germany -- is that both landlines and mobiles?).

MATHA531 · 11-07-2007, 16:06

To me, the rise in termination fees makes UM almost a no go these days. Also the CBW increase means it is more expensive to use CBW to call the USA or whatever then the naitive UM.

Right now, to me, the best deal seems to be O9....cbw charges only 16¢/minute, I did have some issues with cbw with them this past couple of weeks but still am not aware what caused it so I wouldn't necessarily blame cbw. Enlinea lists its Iceland rate as 18¢/minute. Termination fees are a non issue if I use the pin2dest on cbw and I suppose getting a dedicated 800 number from them is the next step; call forwarding 800 services are expensive to Iceland and to Estonia too as is the fall back I had a lot of success with in the past. I used to call forward directly off my verizon landline and the termination fee to Liechtenstein used to be 1¢ (not a typo); it's now well over 30¢.

Of course O9 doesn't have a roaming agreement in Switzerland. Also although rates to Estonia on cbw are listed as very low, I have never gotten a callback on an Estonian mobile and termination fees to Estonian mobiles are also very high.

This whole business of the high termination fees to the international sims in Liechtenstein, Iceland and Estonia is very very fishy to me...smells like some sort of conspiracy quite frankly on the part of telcoms to discourage people from using them.

Now what will happen when the eu roaming fees come into effect are anybody's guess. It's also interesting that both cbw and enlinea continue t have very high rates from UK mobiles. Now of course if in the UK, with Orange call abroad or Mobile World, it's a non issue as I get great rates. But using an Isle of Man sim outside the UK with cbw is not all that economical (although they have drastically lowered their rates to France and I believe Germany to half that of the UK)...hm conspiracy again?

So to sum it up, probably today my best bet is O9 (although they're new voicemail system has gummed up things for me....I ended up with 48 calls in my voicemail on O9 caused by callbacks from enlinea and cbw and wonder if the lost of my O9 credit had something to do with it).

herkdrvr · **Sms? -** 11-07-2007, 16:41

I've found in the Netherlands, Germany, and Belgium, the UM card works very well (very reliable). Can't speak to the costs as I only use it to call the US. However, I'm wondering if it would be better for you to use SMS between UM phones for staying in contact on those jaunts where you split up? Just a thought.

I'm ditching my UM card shortly, after I get back from this trip and my Travelsim card arrives. I'll keep the UM card long enough to insure my Travelsim works better and costs less or the same.

I've had serious problems with UM in Australia and moderate problems in China and the Emirates. Of course, it continues to not work in New Zealand, and I haven't figured out why. And the "help" side of UM is not really helpful. Never has been but if it's possible, it's gotten work.

Good luck!

MATHA531 · 11-07-2007, 16:51

UM has never worked in New Zealand...if you look at the web site you will find New Zealand is more assuredly not listed as a country where it is supposed to work.

Do you use the naitive ability of UM to call back to the USA? That's 0,64€ for the first minute, 1,03€ for the second minute and 1,42€ for the third minute. And do remember they bill in 60 second intervals so a call for 121 seconds will put you back for a three minute call that is 1,42€. At current exchange rates, assuming you pay with a credit card that does not impose the 3% fee for currency exchange,m that is $0.88 for a one minute call, $1.41 for a two minute call and $1.95 for a 121 second call...at those prices you are almost just as well to simply use the overpriced world class roaming on T Mobile USA or the $5.99/month plan on Cingular USA.

Ouch ouch ouch. What a bloody rip off.

tivoboy · **same thing -** 11-07-2007, 20:44

I'm trying to figure out the same thing, not the group calling though, but I think we are ALL trying to find the next best solution now that UM and CBW or Enlinea are .50$+ for a call.

I find the best solution from a cost standpoint for outbound to USA or other, is CBW since they bill in 6 sec increments and there is no setup fee for inbound.

what I use now for calls to family in the US is, I call one time on the UM, and then my family calls back using my onesuite account number, and it only costs .25$ us to the UM mobile. I can handle those prices just fine, this being 50% cheaper or more than the UM to CBW, but it WAS nicer when it was .11$ to call OUT to the USA and other places.

I'd like to setup some sort of trigger at home, maybe an asterisk service that will dial my UM number and then offer a dial tone using my onesuite account.

fastsvo · 11-07-2007, 22:32

I am very new to all of this, so please excuse my ignorance. I have been researching the hell out of Prepaid cards and Call Back services for my trip to Spain. After reading about the sketchy call back reliability, I am starting to think I should buy a PASSPORT Sim from www.telestial.com

Free Incoming calls and text. $0.50 outgoing (with $0.25 connect fee) to the US and they give me a +44 UK mobile number (should be cheaper for USA residents to call me on services like Skype or through a long distance phone).

Am I missing a better deal here? Do I really want to give CB a chance?

Thanks!

snaimon · **How long (Oh Lord?) -** 12-07-2007, 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by tivoboy

what I use now for calls to family in the US is, I call one time on the UM, and then my family calls back using my onesuite account number, and it only costs .25$ us to the UM mobile.

And the question is how long can Onesuite keep their $.25 rate to 423? Everyone else has raised rates. Just a matter of time.

Stan

snaimon · **? -** 12-07-2007, 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MATHA531

.... and $1.95 for a 121 second call...at those prices you are almost just as well to simply use the overpriced world class roaming on T Mobile USA or the $5.99/month plan on Cingular USA.

Ouch ouch ouch. What a bloody rip off.

Agree it's a rip off. T-Mo also has 60/60 billing so a 121 call is $2.97, no? Don't forget to add US taxes to that, so there is some savings.

As noted elsewhere, I will be burning up my UM balance when I am there. All sunk costs for me. Of course all our PREPAID options except NEW ones we purchase are sunk costs. Nature of prepaid.

Stan

	(#1)
TheMadBrewer (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Fan Posts: 127 Join Date: 01 Jun 2005 Location: Marina del Rey, CA Country:	Is UM the best for this... - 11-07-2007, 07:58 UM seems to be out of favor this days with the prepaidgms.net community. I haven't been traveling abroad for the past 4 months so I haven't had much experience with all the recent problems folks have been having. As far as I can tell though, they will still fit my needs best for a trip this fall. But I thought I'd seek the wisdom of the collective first (unlike lots of communities -- offline as well as online -- this one seems to be smarter collectively than individually ) Anyway, this fall a fairly large group of us (8-10, maybe more) will be doing a serious beer trip thru Europe: Netherlands, Belgium, Germany and Austria. At least 4 of us (and maybe more) will have unlocked world GSM phones. I'm looking for a way we can stay in touch as various subgroups split off for a day or two (can you believe it -- some folks would rather visit museums and cathedrals rather than breweries!). From the international SIMs that help support PPGSM as far as I can tell only UM has reasonable "subscriber-to-subscriber" rates. The others seem to charge it as a call to a home country mobile. Since I already have a UM SIM I was leaning that way, but with all the recent reported problems I'm not adverse to switching. So do any of your international SIMs have really good subscriber to subscriber rates? As I side note, my take on the increase in FL termination fees: Even a year or so ago I would thought it a disaster. But I've been traveling with a PC (a fairly light HP TC1100 tablet) and even the mom-and-pop hotels I often stay have free (or cheap) wi-fi, I've been finding myself using VOIP from my hotel room rather then UM/CBW anyway. UM/CBW was nice if I needed to reach somebody while out and about, but I found it was generally easier (and cheaper!) to use voip. Most of the people that need to reach me in Europe are clients with urgent problems and they don't seem to mind (or at least haven't complained) about the cost of calls to UM. I'll still keep my CBW to use with my national SIMs and also the toll free access numbers (and my toll free number as well). Whole bunch of SIMs, mostly dead, some still working...

	(#4)
MATHA531 (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Specialist Posts: 869 Join Date: 15 Oct 2004 Country:	11-07-2007, 16:06 To me, the rise in termination fees makes UM almost a no go these days. Also the CBW increase means it is more expensive to use CBW to call the USA or whatever then the naitive UM. Right now, to me, the best deal seems to be O9....cbw charges only 16¢/minute, I did have some issues with cbw with them this past couple of weeks but still am not aware what caused it so I wouldn't necessarily blame cbw. Enlinea lists its Iceland rate as 18¢/minute. Termination fees are a non issue if I use the pin2dest on cbw and I suppose getting a dedicated 800 number from them is the next step; call forwarding 800 services are expensive to Iceland and to Estonia too as is the fall back I had a lot of success with in the past. I used to call forward directly off my verizon landline and the termination fee to Liechtenstein used to be 1¢ (not a typo); it's now well over 30¢. Of course O9 doesn't have a roaming agreement in Switzerland. Also although rates to Estonia on cbw are listed as very low, I have never gotten a callback on an Estonian mobile and termination fees to Estonian mobiles are also very high. This whole business of the high termination fees to the international sims in Liechtenstein, Iceland and Estonia is very very fishy to me...smells like some sort of conspiracy quite frankly on the part of telcoms to discourage people from using them. Now what will happen when the eu roaming fees come into effect are anybody's guess. It's also interesting that both cbw and enlinea continue t have very high rates from UK mobiles. Now of course if in the UK, with Orange call abroad or Mobile World, it's a non issue as I get great rates. But using an Isle of Man sim outside the UK with cbw is not all that economical (although they have drastically lowered their rates to France and I believe Germany to half that of the UK)...hm conspiracy again? So to sum it up, probably today my best bet is O9 (although they're new voicemail system has gummed up things for me....I ended up with 48 calls in my voicemail on O9 caused by callbacks from enlinea and cbw and wonder if the lost of my O9 credit had something to do with it).

	(#5)
herkdrvr (Offline) Member Advanced Member Posts: 50 Join Date: 20 Sep 2005 Country:	Sms? - 11-07-2007, 16:41 I've found in the Netherlands, Germany, and Belgium, the UM card works very well (very reliable). Can't speak to the costs as I only use it to call the US. However, I'm wondering if it would be better for you to use SMS between UM phones for staying in contact on those jaunts where you split up? Just a thought. I'm ditching my UM card shortly, after I get back from this trip and my Travelsim card arrives. I'll keep the UM card long enough to insure my Travelsim works better and costs less or the same. I've had serious problems with UM in Australia and moderate problems in China and the Emirates. Of course, it continues to not work in New Zealand, and I haven't figured out why. And the "help" side of UM is not really helpful. Never has been but if it's possible, it's gotten work. Good luck!

	(#6)
MATHA531 (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Specialist Posts: 869 Join Date: 15 Oct 2004 Country:	11-07-2007, 16:51 UM has never worked in New Zealand...if you look at the web site you will find New Zealand is more assuredly not listed as a country where it is supposed to work. Do you use the naitive ability of UM to call back to the USA? That's 0,64€ for the first minute, 1,03€ for the second minute and 1,42€ for the third minute. And do remember they bill in 60 second intervals so a call for 121 seconds will put you back for a three minute call that is 1,42€. At current exchange rates, assuming you pay with a credit card that does not impose the 3% fee for currency exchange,m that is $0.88 for a one minute call, $1.41 for a two minute call and $1.95 for a 121 second call...at those prices you are almost just as well to simply use the overpriced world class roaming on T Mobile USA or the $5.99/month plan on Cingular USA. Ouch ouch ouch. What a bloody rip off.

	(#7)
tivoboy (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Fan Posts: 150 Join Date: 11 Aug 2005 Country:	same thing - 11-07-2007, 20:44 I'm trying to figure out the same thing, not the group calling though, but I think we are ALL trying to find the next best solution now that UM and CBW or Enlinea are .50$+ for a call. I find the best solution from a cost standpoint for outbound to USA or other, is CBW since they bill in 6 sec increments and there is no setup fee for inbound. what I use now for calls to family in the US is, I call one time on the UM, and then my family calls back using my onesuite account number, and it only costs .25$ us to the UM mobile. I can handle those prices just fine, this being 50% cheaper or more than the UM to CBW, but it WAS nicer when it was .11$ to call OUT to the USA and other places. I'd like to setup some sort of trigger at home, maybe an asterisk service that will dial my UM number and then offer a dial tone using my onesuite account.

	(#8)
fastsvo (Offline) Junior Member Newbie Posts: 2 Join Date: 11 Jul 2007 Country:	11-07-2007, 22:32 I am very new to all of this, so please excuse my ignorance. I have been researching the hell out of Prepaid cards and Call Back services for my trip to Spain. After reading about the sketchy call back reliability, I am starting to think I should buy a PASSPORT Sim from www.telestial.com Free Incoming calls and text. $0.50 outgoing (with $0.25 connect fee) to the US and they give me a +44 UK mobile number (should be cheaper for USA residents to call me on services like Skype or through a long distance phone). Am I missing a better deal here? Do I really want to give CB a chance? Thanks!