Strange problem with +447 and cheap call providers

petkow · **Strange problem with +447 and cheap call providers -** 18-03-2009, 08:08

I have a UK o2 number and a number of my callers are reporting a strange bug when they call me. It could be a common problem so I just thought I would check if anyone else here gets this. As far as I know the following problem only happens when I am roaming and for callers from other countries (not the UK) when they use cheap call providers.

Basically, they select a provider for UK mobile and dial my number, then hear a few rings and someone picks up and says "Hello?". My callers realise it is not me and ask to speak to Peter upon which the other guy says: "just a minute" or "hold on" or something to that efect. There is usually some background TV noise (apparantly some economic news channel) and of course they keep on holding but I never appear and eventually they hang up. Of course, I am the only one who ever picks up my mobile phone, so it is all a con to keep people on the line. I have actually tried this calling my own number when I was in Germany once and realised it is all a recording. The gap between the first "hello" and the 2nd statement is the same irrespective of if you say anything!

So is this a con by the cheap telco companies? Some of my callers have reported holding on for up to 5 minutes and at about 15c/min to UK mobiles that is a fair bit of revenue!

Of course I could do a bit more research and find out what call providers they use etc. but I just thought I would check with everyone here first! The problem is especially bad for callers from Germany and the USA. Lately it is getting worse, to the extent that some people have given up on calling me! I am trying to convince them to just use another call provider to call me, but obviously that is out of my control!

Does anyone know what i can do, or has anyone experienced similar problems?

Bossman · 18-03-2009, 08:38

Yes. This has happened to me when I call my sister's tmobile UK number. It also happened to be when I made test calls to my then global sim number(07624). You are absolutely correct. The same hello and background noise, and they always ask you to hold on right away regardless of who you ask for.

petkow · 18-03-2009, 09:06

Thanks. Good to know it is not just me, and as suspected it is not a particular problem exclusive to o2. I presume you were making calls from the USA? I wish I could try and sort this out.

To try and be objecvtive... there is probably something the Germany based ppgsmers could help with!

My German callers say they get the problem when they are calling with the cheapest "call-by-call" providers found on Billiger-Telefonieren - Der Tarifvergleich für Telefontarife which are most likely the following...

Nr. Ct/min Zugang Takt Tarif
1. 8,20 01058 60/60 01058
2. 8,30 01094 60/60 01094
3. 8,43 01040 60/60 01040
4. 8,49 01012 60/60 01012telecom

Can any of the German members on ppgsm recommend a stable call-by-call provider at lowest possible cost for calling +447 numbering ranges? (one I could suggest for my callers?) Is there another telecom comparison site I can use? Above all, is there a complaint procedure they can adopt with the telcos involved? As I say, the problem just seems to be getting worse all the time, although apparantly has been around for a long time!

Bossman · 18-03-2009, 09:17

Yes. I was calling from the USA. And, I believe I was calling via voicestick, a VOIP provider, on the occasions that it happened.

andy · 18-03-2009, 10:07

It's a recording - seems to be Bloomberg TV, and also includes the sound of a dog barking. Some kind of odd glitch response on a busy system?

I first heard about it on newsgroups about a year ago (someone in America calling a Virgin mobile). Then I had it myself a couple of times, read about it on two forums, and coincidentally someone mentioned it to me as something he'd had 3 or 4 times

Some people contacted the calls providers, who are known for not having much customer service response, and one or two found their next charge reduced slightly, but no reply.

I thought it had all died out.

The thing that would concern me most is trying to use a callback provider without a mechanism to dump the call if you never receive the expected first leg, but with any luck your intended callee would get bored with it fairly early, and the system clear down soon after.

petkow · 18-03-2009, 10:48

Thanks Andy. As suspected it is bound to have been flagged somewhere before, and after your post I did a bit more research and saw a thread on a UK forum (known to you too) where one guy got so worried after phoning his mother and hearing the recording, had assumed his mothers house was being burgled and drove 1 hour to check up on her! (all subsequent calls using "high price" normal phone providers were just diverted to her answering machine). From there, and other threads the problem seems to be particularily bad whilst calling from Betamax/Finarea affiliates (no surprises there), but obviously these guys are pretty much uncontactable and largely unaccountable for their alleged faults! I presume most people just brush it off.

It is obviously more than just a bit of a problem, but my worry is it seems to be also getting worse! Yesterday somebody spent close to about 2 US$ in various failed attempts to get through to me this way! This may be relatively small money but to the operators of this con, this is an easy get rich quick scheme!

My particular problem is it also makes the recipient look unproffesional. For example, I rely on people calling me on my mobile for work purposes during normal business hours. Unfortunately dogs barking, TV on full blast and unprofessional phone pickups hardly sound very business like. However, I cannot convince people that the problem lies with their calling platform rather than with me! On follow ups with some of my callers they have often wrongly assumed I have been having a day off or lie-in or something like that!

From what you are saying above and from other threads I have read there has not really been a solution to this. From everything I have read, all complaints to watchdogs and regulators (e.g. OFCOM etc.) have not been very forthcoming. Is this something we just have to deal with if we want to continue having cheap options for calls etc.? I am stuck on this! A bit alarming as a lot of us rely on +447

petkow · 18-03-2009, 11:07

To collate further links for future ref:
Rumor Mill (Phone Scoop)
SAYNOTO0870.COM - Calling mobiles using 18185
Vonage Forum - Hello Hello then I hear a dog barking in background????
18185 cannot ring mobiles - Page 3 - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums

Seems Verizon and Vonage users are victoms too! Obviously not Finarea themselves but one of their providers!

Motel75 · 19-03-2009, 15:15

Fascinating. I'm tempted to call some UK mobile numbers just to hear this. Funnily enough, last year I had some problems reaching a funny recording when calling from Virgin to Virgin within the UK - I have no idea what that was (it sounded like mumbling) and I reported it to VM.

bbob · 19-03-2009, 15:44

Very funny I read this thread this morning.

At 14.30 my time I called on of my dutch supplies using voicetrading standard route. I called him on his dutch 06xx cell phone number.

It go answered and I could hardly hear the womon, but she said please wait I will call him. Then in the background you heared his call someone saying there is someone waiting for you. This was all done in dutch. Than after 2 minutes or so everything repeated itself.

Seems like this is the same scam as the uk mobile number but also in dutch. As voicetrading is probalby using several companies to make the call it seems as 1 provider onscrewing them playing a prerecorded message when calling a mobile number.

I have reported it to voicetrading and am waiting for an answer.

20-03-2009, 13:00

Hi guys,

I also link in this line in, I called in December and January a Australian Vodafone number and had this phenomenon too.

My call was initiated through a Betamax clone and was going to an Australian prepaid Vodafone SIM. Somebody answered the call and yelled to a person to pick up the phone, in the background the TV was on full noise and after a while the dog barked.

The question I ask my self is, how can the initiated call be hijacked if these are scam calls?

	(#1)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	Strange problem with +447 and cheap call providers - 18-03-2009, 08:08 I have a UK o2 number and a number of my callers are reporting a strange bug when they call me. It could be a common problem so I just thought I would check if anyone else here gets this. As far as I know the following problem only happens when I am roaming and for callers from other countries (not the UK) when they use cheap call providers. Basically, they select a provider for UK mobile and dial my number, then hear a few rings and someone picks up and says "Hello?". My callers realise it is not me and ask to speak to Peter upon which the other guy says: "just a minute" or "hold on" or something to that efect. There is usually some background TV noise (apparantly some economic news channel) and of course they keep on holding but I never appear and eventually they hang up. Of course, I am the only one who ever picks up my mobile phone, so it is all a con to keep people on the line. I have actually tried this calling my own number when I was in Germany once and realised it is all a recording. The gap between the first "hello" and the 2nd statement is the same irrespective of if you say anything! So is this a con by the cheap telco companies? Some of my callers have reported holding on for up to 5 minutes and at about 15c/min to UK mobiles that is a fair bit of revenue! Of course I could do a bit more research and find out what call providers they use etc. but I just thought I would check with everyone here first! The problem is especially bad for callers from Germany and the USA. Lately it is getting worse, to the extent that some people have given up on calling me! I am trying to convince them to just use another call provider to call me, but obviously that is out of my control! Does anyone know what i can do, or has anyone experienced similar problems?

	(#2)
Bossman (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Professionist Posts: 1,257 Join Date: 22 Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Country:	18-03-2009, 08:38 Yes. This has happened to me when I call my sister's tmobile UK number. It also happened to be when I made test calls to my then global sim number(07624). You are absolutely correct. The same hello and background noise, and they always ask you to hold on right away regardless of who you ask for. Phones: Xiaomi Mi Mix 2, Samsung Galaxy A50, ASUS zenfone 3, Sim cards: AT&T (Contract), 3 UK, Piranha Mobile

	(#3)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	18-03-2009, 09:06 Thanks. Good to know it is not just me, and as suspected it is not a particular problem exclusive to o2. I presume you were making calls from the USA? I wish I could try and sort this out. To try and be objecvtive... there is probably something the Germany based ppgsmers could help with! My German callers say they get the problem when they are calling with the cheapest "call-by-call" providers found on Billiger-Telefonieren - Der Tarifvergleich für Telefontarife which are most likely the following... Nr. Ct/min Zugang Takt Tarif 1. 8,20 01058 60/60 01058 2. 8,30 01094 60/60 01094 3. 8,43 01040 60/60 01040 4. 8,49 01012 60/60 01012telecom Can any of the German members on ppgsm recommend a stable call-by-call provider at lowest possible cost for calling +447 numbering ranges? (one I could suggest for my callers?) Is there another telecom comparison site I can use? Above all, is there a complaint procedure they can adopt with the telcos involved? As I say, the problem just seems to be getting worse all the time, although apparantly has been around for a long time!

	(#4)
Bossman (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Professionist Posts: 1,257 Join Date: 22 Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Country:	18-03-2009, 09:17 Yes. I was calling from the USA. And, I believe I was calling via voicestick, a VOIP provider, on the occasions that it happened. Phones: Xiaomi Mi Mix 2, Samsung Galaxy A50, ASUS zenfone 3, Sim cards: AT&T (Contract), 3 UK, Piranha Mobile

	(#5)
andy (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Prophet Posts: 2,128 Join Date: 10 Dec 2004 Country:	18-03-2009, 10:07 It's a recording - seems to be Bloomberg TV, and also includes the sound of a dog barking. Some kind of odd glitch response on a busy system? I first heard about it on newsgroups about a year ago (someone in America calling a Virgin mobile). Then I had it myself a couple of times, read about it on two forums, and coincidentally someone mentioned it to me as something he'd had 3 or 4 times Some people contacted the calls providers, who are known for not having much customer service response, and one or two found their next charge reduced slightly, but no reply. I thought it had all died out. The thing that would concern me most is trying to use a callback provider without a mechanism to dump the call if you never receive the expected first leg, but with any luck your intended callee would get bored with it fairly early, and the system clear down soon after.

	(#6)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	18-03-2009, 10:48 Thanks Andy. As suspected it is bound to have been flagged somewhere before, and after your post I did a bit more research and saw a thread on a UK forum (known to you too) where one guy got so worried after phoning his mother and hearing the recording, had assumed his mothers house was being burgled and drove 1 hour to check up on her! (all subsequent calls using "high price" normal phone providers were just diverted to her answering machine). From there, and other threads the problem seems to be particularily bad whilst calling from Betamax/Finarea affiliates (no surprises there), but obviously these guys are pretty much uncontactable and largely unaccountable for their alleged faults! I presume most people just brush it off. It is obviously more than just a bit of a problem, but my worry is it seems to be also getting worse! Yesterday somebody spent close to about 2 US$ in various failed attempts to get through to me this way! This may be relatively small money but to the operators of this con, this is an easy get rich quick scheme! My particular problem is it also makes the recipient look unproffesional. For example, I rely on people calling me on my mobile for work purposes during normal business hours. Unfortunately dogs barking, TV on full blast and unprofessional phone pickups hardly sound very business like. However, I cannot convince people that the problem lies with their calling platform rather than with me! On follow ups with some of my callers they have often wrongly assumed I have been having a day off or lie-in or something like that! From what you are saying above and from other threads I have read there has not really been a solution to this. From everything I have read, all complaints to watchdogs and regulators (e.g. OFCOM etc.) have not been very forthcoming. Is this something we just have to deal with if we want to continue having cheap options for calls etc.? I am stuck on this! A bit alarming as a lot of us rely on +447

	(#7)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	18-03-2009, 11:07 To collate further links for future ref: Rumor Mill (Phone Scoop) SAYNOTO0870.COM - Calling mobiles using 18185 Vonage Forum - Hello Hello then I hear a dog barking in background???? 18185 cannot ring mobiles - Page 3 - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums Seems Verizon and Vonage users are victoms too! Obviously not Finarea themselves but one of their providers!

	(#8)
Motel75 (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 573 Join Date: 15 Jun 2006 Location: Berlin Country:	19-03-2009, 15:15 Fascinating. I'm tempted to call some UK mobile numbers just to hear this. Funnily enough, last year I had some problems reaching a funny recording when calling from Virgin to Virgin within the UK - I have no idea what that was (it sounded like mumbling) and I reported it to VM. Current DE: Vodafone, Netzklub; PL: Klucz, Virgin; UK: Giffgaff, Vodafone; US: T-Mobile; CA: 7-Eleven; IT: Vodafone; UA: Kyivstar; FR: Bouygues; GR: Vodafone Former DE: Vodafone, T-Mobile, O2, Blauworld, 01051mobile, Solomo, Lycamobile, Simyo, Congstar, Fonic, Edeka Mobile, Lidl Mobile; PL: Heyah, Era, Virgin, Sami Swoi, Orange, POP, iPlus, Carrefour Mova, Telepin Mobi, Play, Lycamobile, T-Mobile; UK: Vodafone, T-Mobile, Virgin; US: T-Mobile, AT&T, Lycamobile; CZ: Vodafone, Oskar; ES: Lebara; GR: Vodafone, Wind; UA: Vodafone; IL: Orange; TR: Turkcell

	(#9)
bbob (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 499 Join Date: 20 Feb 2007 Country:	19-03-2009, 15:44 Very funny I read this thread this morning. At 14.30 my time I called on of my dutch supplies using voicetrading standard route. I called him on his dutch 06xx cell phone number. It go answered and I could hardly hear the womon, but she said please wait I will call him. Then in the background you heared his call someone saying there is someone waiting for you. This was all done in dutch. Than after 2 minutes or so everything repeated itself. Seems like this is the same scam as the uk mobile number but also in dutch. As voicetrading is probalby using several companies to make the call it seems as 1 provider onscrewing them playing a prerecorded message when calling a mobile number. I have reported it to voicetrading and am waiting for an answer.

	(#10)
JohnDoe Guest Posts: n/a	20-03-2009, 13:00 Hi guys, I also link in this line in, I called in December and January a Australian Vodafone number and had this phenomenon too. My call was initiated through a Betamax clone and was going to an Australian prepaid Vodafone SIM. Somebody answered the call and yelled to a person to pick up the phone, in the background the TV was on full noise and after a while the dog barked. The question I ask my self is, how can the initiated call be hijacked if these are scam calls?