Toggle Mobile

[inquisitor]

I recently had the opportunity to speak to a senior Lycamobile representative who told me that it was decided to no longer actively market toggle and that it will probably be phased out at some point of time. He cited the failure to attract high-volume customers and the unreliability of the automatic IMSI switching performed by the STK application as main concerns that have led to the decision. As an alternative he suggested Lyca 2 in 1 which however is only available to British Lycamobile SIM cards that can have a Polish and Irish MSISDN/IMSI added. Funnily this service again relies on STK for IMSI switching.

[ChrisNeedsToKnow]

Thanks, inquisitor, for the insight!

How do they want to attract "high volume" customers, if the product isn't reliable in the first place?

Had I known for sure that the product is supported, AND had they allowed porting in German+Swiss numbers (and other numbers), AND add meaningful international data-packages, I might have switched my main numbers to one single card. It would've beed perfect.

But trying to market an incomplete product, then complain that there's no uptake?!

Strange strategy!

With this new info, all Lyca is finally out the window for me. After all, customers never know what will happen tomorrow.

[peterdoo]

Toggle has finally published the rates to adapt to the new EU roaming regulation valid since April 30th. Although the rate list shows various rates for the same item, the rates from most Toggle countries to Toggle countries seem to be:

Landline/mobile: 7p/min
SMS: 5p/min
Data: 18p/MB

From non-Toggle EU to Toggle the rates seem to be:
Landline/mobile: 18p/min
SMS: 5p/min
Data: 17p/MB

Far over the rates of many EU prepaid SIMs that today offer the following from any (except home) EU to any EU country:
Landline/mobile: 4p/min
SMS: 1p/min
Data: 4p/MB

[davegr]

Originally Posted by peterdoo

Far over the rates of many EU prepaid SIMs that today offer the following from any (except home) EU to any EU country:
Landline/mobile: 4p/min
SMS: 1p/min
Data: 4p/MB

Aside from the UK networks, which EU prepaid sim cards are offering those rates? I've looked around and have not been able to find any!

[peterdoo]

I haven't checked it lately, however in May the German Telekom prepaid (including Congstar) and Spanish Orange and Movistar had these prices without the need to book any domestic package. The German Telekom is scraping surcharges completely when a domestic package is booked in October.

[davegr]

Originally Posted by peterdoo

I haven't checked it lately, however in May the German Telekom prepaid (including Congstar) and Spanish Orange and Movistar had these prices without the need to book any domestic package. The German Telekom is scraping surcharges completely when a domestic package is booked in October.

Thanks. It seems that T-Mobile DE (I assume that's what you meant) does not charge the base rates but Orange ES and Movistar ES still seem to.

[andy]

Toggle has now increased the rates within the UK to 7 p/min for UK landline and mobiles, matching the rates in other Toggle countries.

I phoned up to ask about this, and was told that the increase was mandated by regulators. You can well imagine that I called this as untrue, and said I thought it cynical of the company to brief its staff to lie to customers.

Rates are now double certain rivals within the UK, and UK customers roaming in Europe calls to UK are 2 to 4 times the rates of UK main networks.

However, calls from Toggle countries to the other Toggle countries plus others are still priced at 3p to landlines, 9p to mobiles, so perhaps using calltrough will help some people.

[peterdoo]

Originally Posted by andy

I phoned up to ask about this, and was told that the increase was mandated by regulators. You can well imagine that I called this as untrue, and said I thought it cynical of the company to brief its staff to lie to customers.

Of course the regulator does not mandate price increase. However there are other limitations that come from regulation and affect prices. Here are two examples:

1.
The new EU roaming regulation mandates that the reference price for all calls in the EU roaming is the off-net price within the home country. In the case of Toggle, that is the UK->UK price. All caps for EU roaming are calculated relative to this price. So maybe instead of lowering the roaming prices, Toggle rised the home price in order to get compliant. Even so, there are many prices for the EU roaming where Toggle apparently charges more than allowed by the regulation.
The maximum prices from any EU country (except UK) to any EU country in the case of Toggle should be:
Voice: 13p/min
SMS: 5p/min
Data: 20p/MB
Incoming: 1p/min
Just been to Portugal, where the SMS from Toggle indicates 18p/min for calls. In Croatia the SMS indicates 67p/MB for Data, 28p/min for calls, 7p/min for incoming and 8p/SMS. All above the limits.

2.
Although the termination rates within the EU have been regulated close to 0,01€/min, that is only valid for the calls originating and terminating within the EEA. More and more operators charge much higher termination rates for the calls delivered from the operators outside the EEA and for the calls where the originator is outside the EEA even though the call passes through an EEA operator (mentioned here: https://www.technologyslegaledge.com...ination-rates/). In general this makes it more difficult for the operators to use low cost routes. Maybe Lycamobile, that is handling many non-EEA calls has difficulties to get the lower termination rates.

[andy]

Originally Posted by peterdoo

1.
The new EU roaming regulation mandates that the reference price for all calls in the EU roaming is the off-net price within the home country. In the case of Toggle, that is the UK->UK price. All caps for EU roaming are calculated relative to this price. So maybe instead of lowering the roaming prices, Toggle rised the home price in order to get compliant. Even so, there are many prices for the EU roaming where Toggle apparently charges more than allowed by the regulation.
The maximum prices from any EU country (except UK) to any EU country in the case of Toggle should be:
Voice: 13p/min
SMS: 5p/min
Data: 20p/MB
Incoming: 1p/min
Just been to Portugal, where the SMS from Toggle indicates 18p/min for calls. In Croatia the SMS indicates 67p/MB for Data, 28p/min for calls, 7p/min for incoming and 8p/SMS. All above the limits.

You may be right, but they seem to be quite mixed up about implementation for EU countries

Website has outgoing rates of 3p, 7p, 9p, 18p, 28p; incoming 0, 4p, 7p, 19p

[fawinds]

I live in the UK and have had a Toggle Mobile SIM for two years. Despite the 7p per minute pricing on their website, the occasional call I make to an UK mobile or landline is still charged at 3p. I wonder whether this means the 7p are only being charged to new customers or simply the new rate is not still in effect.

£5 per year for a foreign mobile number where you can received calls for free while roaming is an excellent price. The cheapest competitor I have found charges £5 per month. I hope the do not increase this price. I have been using one from Spain and another from the USA to receive calls here in the UK and the quality is excellent.