GeoSIM & Nokia phones

DaveRo · **GeoSIM & Nokia phones -** 16-02-2007, 17:29

I bought a GeoSIM card. It doesn't work fully with my Nokia 6310i phone. That was my fault - their website clearly says it won't. I can use it by dialling *125*1 etc so no great problem - except it would be easier if I could just call as usual.

I wondered why it doesn't work. I read about USSD and STK (none of which I'd heard of before) and I trawled through the firmware versions to see if an upgrade might fix it. My conclusion -it doesn't work becausethe 6310i doesn't support STK (or maybe it does, but doesn't support 'call control' - I'm not sure which).

So I thought I'd see if I could get another cheap Nokia on ebay which would do the job. I regularly use IRDA and Bluetooth and GPRS and I don't need a camera, and i want one as similar to the 6310i as possible (I've used it for a very long time.)

This page gives a list of phones that don't work http://www.globalsimcard.co.uk/compatibility.htm I know that list is incomplete: I tried a 6210 and it doesn't work.

This page gives a list of phones that are known to work: http://www.geodesa.com/Global_SIM_Ca..._sim_card.html The Nokia list is very short. Some phones that might otherwise choose, like the 6810 or the 6230i are not there.

So here's the question. Is there any way of predicting from the spec whether a phone - the 6230i say - will work with GeoSIM (i.e. generate the callback request when I dial as normal.) It doesn't seem to depend on age: the 6100 was introduced in 2002 and is in the 'compatible' list.

Does anyone have a 6230i with GeoSIM?

Old Nokia phones: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia-phones-o-1.php

Dave

Effendi · 17-02-2007, 11:14

The best way is not to buy stupid Nokias!

You won't have any problem with Sony-Ericsson, Siemens and I think Motorola as well, while there are problems with LG and I suppose Samsung too. And Nokia, of course.
Unfortunately the only way seems to ask here if someone has the phone you want to buy and see if it works...

andy · 17-02-2007, 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi

The best way is not to buy stupid Nokias!

I have almost only cheap Nokias, as they are free to unlock

3510i and even a 7 year old 3210 work on the menu-dialling (new ekit SIM last week) - but maybe all that does is prefix that code anyway

3100/3120 work fine with a year-old SIM

meir · 17-02-2007, 13:49

From my experience the best is SE T68i or any Siemens model made before Benq-Siemens.

DaveRo · 17-02-2007, 15:24

Thanks for the advice on non-Nokia phones, but that's not really the question. I've had Nokia phones for 10 years - 6110, 62210, 6310i - they were given me by my employer. They all still work, despite being physically abused. The user interfaces are essentially the same and all the batteries are interchangeable. And as Andy says, I can easily unlock them myself.

Does anyone know if GeoSIM use some bona-fide STK API to initiate callback when you press 'call' (I assume that's what it should do - i.e. prefix the *125*1 etc and genererate the USSD message) or is it some sort of hack - which might work or might not? I have rarely seen a spec for a Nokia phone that says it 'supports STK' - though some obviously do - or what level of STK support it offers. Reviews don't usually mention STK. Perhaps STK is actually more likely in a low-end phone where its use is pre-programmed.

This list http://www.qred.co.uk/phone_compatability.htm suggests a 6230 will work but a 6230i won't. Why on earth might that be? Did Nokia deliberately remove the facility, or did they break it? Maybe they include STK if there's space in memory and take it out if something sexier - like a camera - is added.

Dave

meir · 17-02-2007, 18:43

I can assure you Nokia 6230 works well with GeoSIM.

jeffharris · 18-02-2007, 05:14

All new Samsungs as well, work fine ... The X820 is a very nice, extremely thin phone to carry around as a second phone (with GeoSIM)

DaveRo · 21-03-2007, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveRo

So here's the question. Is there any way of predicting from the spec whether a phone - the 6230i say - will work with GeoSIM (i.e. generate the callback request when I dial as normal.)

I came upon the answer to my own question - so I'll post it here.

Whether a phone supports the 'call control' STK facility is signalled in its 'Terminal Profile' - byte 2 bit 2. (The layout of the Terminal Profile is given in document GSM 11/14)

I found a load of terminal profiles here http://www.bladox.com/devel-docs/gen_me_sim.html

Example terminal profiles:
6310i* (doesn't work with GeoSIM) starts (hex) xx x1 - bit 2 not set
7610 (works) starts xx x7 - bit 2 set

I bought a Nokia 6100 on ebay for 16GBP - works fine.

(* correction: 6310i not 6210i)

hawkdeira · **just curious -** 21-03-2007, 18:53

Hi - have been following this thread with interest but I don't pretend to understand all of it!
I use Riiing /UM with a Nokia 6230i and have to dial out through the sim card menu rather than entering the number through the keyboard.
What does the phone do to initiate the callback from Riiing? Send a text message? Send a special code somewhere?
As I said, just curious . . .

DaveRo · 22-03-2007, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkdeira

...I use Riiing /UM with a Nokia 6230i and have to dial out through the sim card menu rather than entering the number through the keyboard.

I don't know much about GSM, STKs, or SIMs - only what I found out researching my own problem with GeoSIM and the Nokia 6310i. (You only find out how something works when it doesn't!)

I looked at the Riiing/UM websites and compared their operation with GeoSIM. In both cases you should be able to just key the number normally. If you can't, because the phone doesn't support that, with GeoSIM you have to compose a USSD which contains the number, whereas with Riiing it seems you have to use a SIM card menu. I'm not sure what that looks like; I assume it's a dialogue with an application on the SIM.

So I think that both SIMs rely on the STK 'call control' function - the phone (Mobile Eqipment, or 'ME') passes whatever number you dial to the SIM, instead of actually calling it. The SIM then generates a service message of some sort - a USSD in the case of GeoSIM - which initiates the call back.

Assuming that the terminal profile given in the link above is correct, the 6230i supports 'call control' - and just about everything else. So I've no idea why it doesn't work.

One possibility is that there might be a firmware problem. The latest firmware for the 6230i is v3.70 - if yours is earlier (*#0000# to find out) then it might be worth a google to see if there are any relevant changes to STK/call control. I saw that there was a change in v3.30 (STK setup call: Correct call sequence when # digit entered) but that doesn't look relevant to me.

Maybe the application on the SIM which handles call control is broken - are there updates to that?

	(#1)
DaveRo (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Fan Posts: 153 Join Date: 07 Jul 2006 Country:	GeoSIM & Nokia phones - 16-02-2007, 17:29 I bought a GeoSIM card. It doesn't work fully with my Nokia 6310i phone. That was my fault - their website clearly says it won't. I can use it by dialling 1251 etc so no great problem - except it would be easier if I could just call as usual. I wondered why it doesn't work. I read about USSD and STK (none of which I'd heard of before) and I trawled through the firmware versions to see if an upgrade might fix it. My conclusion -it doesn't work becausethe 6310i doesn't support STK (or maybe it does, but doesn't support 'call control' - I'm not sure which). So I thought I'd see if I could get another cheap Nokia on ebay which would do the job. I regularly use IRDA and Bluetooth and GPRS and I don't need a camera, and i want one as similar to the 6310i as possible (I've used it for a very long time.) This page gives a list of phones that don't work http://www.globalsimcard.co.uk/compatibility.htm I know that list is incomplete: I tried a 6210 and it doesn't work. This page gives a list of phones that are known to work: http://www.geodesa.com/Global_SIM_Ca..._sim_card.html The Nokia list is very short. Some phones that might otherwise choose, like the 6810 or the 6230i are not there. So here's the question. Is there any way of predicting from the spec whether a phone - the 6230i say - will work with GeoSIM (i.e. generate the callback request when I dial as normal.) It doesn't seem to depend on age: the 6100 was introduced in 2002 and is in the 'compatible' list. Does anyone have a 6230i with GeoSIM? Old Nokia phones: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia-phones-o-1.php Dave

	(#2)
Effendi (Offline) The great Dictator! Prepaid Prophet Posts: 2,487 Join Date: 13 Jan 2004 Location: Trieste/Trst Country:	17-02-2007, 11:14 The best way is not to buy stupid Nokias! You won't have any problem with Sony-Ericsson, Siemens and I think Motorola as well, while there are problems with LG and I suppose Samsung too. And Nokia, of course. Unfortunately the only way seems to ask here if someone has the phone you want to buy and see if it works... Working Prepaids: IT: Wind, Vodafone IT, UNO Mobile; SM: Prima; UK: 3, Virgin; INT: TravelSIM, Truphone. Deceased Prepaids: CZ: Oskar, Eurotel; SK: Orange; DE: E-Plus, Aldi, Simyo; GE: Geocell; AM: Armentel; PL: Heyah, Plus; LT: Tele2; LV: Amigo; EE: Elisa; UA: Kyivstar; NZ: Vodafone; INT: UM, UM+, ICQSim. GSM/3G Phones: Nokia Lumia 630 dual sim

	(#4)
meir (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 269 Join Date: 21 Feb 2006 Location: It's long story Country:	17-02-2007, 13:49 From my experience the best is SE T68i or any Siemens model made before Benq-Siemens.

	(#5)
DaveRo (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Fan Posts: 153 Join Date: 07 Jul 2006 Country:	17-02-2007, 15:24 Thanks for the advice on non-Nokia phones, but that's not really the question. I've had Nokia phones for 10 years - 6110, 62210, 6310i - they were given me by my employer. They all still work, despite being physically abused. The user interfaces are essentially the same and all the batteries are interchangeable. And as Andy says, I can easily unlock them myself. Does anyone know if GeoSIM use some bona-fide STK API to initiate callback when you press 'call' (I assume that's what it should do - i.e. prefix the 1251 etc and genererate the USSD message) or is it some sort of hack - which might work or might not? I have rarely seen a spec for a Nokia phone that says it 'supports STK' - though some obviously do - or what level of STK support it offers. Reviews don't usually mention STK. Perhaps STK is actually more likely in a low-end phone where its use is pre-programmed. This list http://www.qred.co.uk/phone_compatability.htm suggests a 6230 will work but a 6230i won't. Why on earth might that be? Did Nokia deliberately remove the facility, or did they break it? Maybe they include STK if there's space in memory and take it out if something sexier - like a camera - is added. Dave

	(#6)
meir (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 269 Join Date: 21 Feb 2006 Location: It's long story Country:	17-02-2007, 18:43 I can assure you Nokia 6230 works well with GeoSIM.

	(#7)
jeffharris (Offline) Member Advanced Member Posts: 55 Join Date: 14 Aug 2006 Location: Los Angeles & NY Country:	18-02-2007, 05:14 All new Samsungs as well, work fine ... The X820 is a very nice, extremely thin phone to carry around as a second phone (with GeoSIM)

	(#9)
hawkdeira (Offline) Member Advanced Member Posts: 56 Join Date: 13 Jun 2005 Country:	just curious - 21-03-2007, 18:53 Hi - have been following this thread with interest but I don't pretend to understand all of it! I use Riiing /UM with a Nokia 6230i and have to dial out through the sim card menu rather than entering the number through the keyboard. What does the phone do to initiate the callback from Riiing? Send a text message? Send a special code somewhere? As I said, just curious . . .