Creating the perfect SIM?

MickyBlue · **Creating the perfect SIM? -** 13-07-2009, 15:08

There's always a lot of chat on this forum about existing services, their problems, limitations etc.

What features would be included with the 'perfect SIM card'? And before you say, free calls everywhere/always, I mean features which are useful and realistic while being worthwhile for the provider/operator as well. Although we concentrate on the cheapest possible calls, margins are diminishing all the time and so new 'value-add' features are going to be interesting going forwards.

Personally, I like the new SIP integration services. I've been testing a service where incoming calls ring on both the handset and any registered SIP phones, and when one is answered - cancels the other.

Any other ideas?

Stu · 13-07-2009, 18:17

1. Voice Mail and SMS to E-mail forwarding;
2. Data;
3. Blackberry Passthrough;
4. Web based call forwarding;
5. Ability to Turn on and Off Voicemail;
6. Automatic Recharge;

petkow · 14-07-2009, 11:08

Here's mine:
1. Light wap based dashboard for SMS, callbacks, forwarding, balance enquiry etc.
2. Also a light wap based info site with rates, partner networks etc.

By the way, a while ago a person from telna mobile had asked similar questions. If you do a search for that, you might find the answers useful.

petkow · 14-07-2009, 11:23

One more opinion.

The funamental problem with all of these is to keep getting revenue from customers, as it is a well known fact that the ratio of free incoming to paid outgoing is heavily stinted to all savy users. I really think that if outgoing rates are more competitive, they will see a lot more useage. The problem is outgoing rates have always been derived from what calls would cost if roaming on your normal home contract. However, to get competitive you really need to start looking beyond that by a long way and instead look at what the competition charges for callbacks. By this I mean the likes of Betamax, Enlinea and Callbackworld. In the case of Betamax callbacks, you may as well forget it as they are pretty much impossible to beat... but close would be good!

In any case, it looks like a case of chasing your tail. Free incoming is generally subsidised somewhat by paid outgoing, however as long as there is free incoming it will mean that you open the door to 3rd party callbacks.

beppe_bl · 15-07-2009, 12:42

to the yackie off topic go http://www.prepaidgsm.net/forum/inte...ie-thread.html

MickyBlue · 15-07-2009, 16:30

I'm interested on how the move towards use of end-user SIP phones will affect the roaming SIM market. Many of us have seperate SIM and SIP (or Skype) services which are not well joined-up. One number (or set of numbers) which rings on whatever devices is handy - and allow any device to be used for outgoing - it seems like a good idea to me, but is it too complex for normal users (i.e. non-PrepaidGSM-readers!) to fathom.

And, in anticipation of the next few messages, I know there are many providers with this functionality 'just around the corner'

Micky

petkow · 15-07-2009, 17:52

On my E71 using the inbuilt SIP features I have various incoming DID's that ring the handset directly whilst I am in 3G, 3.5G or WIFI coverage areas. When I am in 2G they automatically divert and look for me on GSM (at forwarded charge of around 5c/min) Dead straightforward to setup though maybe it takes a bit of a geek. I can't see why someone couldn't sell a package like that, though you might as well set it up yourself. DID's that ring both a SIP address and a PSTN number simultaneously have been around for ages. I used one with Gradwell in the UK at least 3 years ago. Personally, I can't see much use for them in the specific case I outlined above. There would be no point in simultaneously ringing the SIP and PSTN if both are on the same handset.

MickyBlue · 15-07-2009, 19:00

Whether it makes sense on the same handset depends on a few other factors. For example, if you are in a WiFi area you could pick-up the call over SIP and avoid MTCs which are levied in some areas.

If I'm travelling on business and am in my hotel room (and hence on the Internet), it may be better to be able to pick calls up on a softphone. Similarly, you could place outbound calls but present the same CLI.

I don't disagree that you can already do much of this is you have the knowledge - but maybe to become mainstream somebody needs to put it all together in a turn-key solution.

petkow · 16-07-2009, 10:49

Absolutely! It would be nice to see someone put the whole lot in a box and sell it. The main problem that I see so far with the system I outlined above is the fact that it often relies on cheap or practically free data, which in most places is only WiFI. Roaming data rates have a long way to go before VoIP over 3G networks in visiting networks becomes feasible. For now the only work around is dual IMSI with a cheap data bundle for frequently visited countries.

Otherwise the system you refer to which is sending a DID to a softfone when you are in WiFI, (say your hotel/overseas business premisis) and GSM at other times is tried and tested. Even Yackie had this on their last SIM offering.

	(#1)
MickyBlue (Offline) Junior Member Newbie Posts: 3 Join Date: 19 May 2009 Country:	Creating the perfect SIM? - 13-07-2009, 15:08 There's always a lot of chat on this forum about existing services, their problems, limitations etc. What features would be included with the 'perfect SIM card'? And before you say, free calls everywhere/always, I mean features which are useful and realistic while being worthwhile for the provider/operator as well. Although we concentrate on the cheapest possible calls, margins are diminishing all the time and so new 'value-add' features are going to be interesting going forwards. Personally, I like the new SIP integration services. I've been testing a service where incoming calls ring on both the handset and any registered SIP phones, and when one is answered - cancels the other. Any other ideas?

	(#2)
Stu (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Guru Posts: 1,091 Join Date: 11 Feb 2004 Location: Detroit (formerly Dubai) Country:	13-07-2009, 18:17 1. Voice Mail and SMS to E-mail forwarding; 2. Data; 3. Blackberry Passthrough; 4. Web based call forwarding; 5. Ability to Turn on and Off Voicemail; 6. Automatic Recharge;

	(#3)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	14-07-2009, 11:08 Here's mine: 1. Light wap based dashboard for SMS, callbacks, forwarding, balance enquiry etc. 2. Also a light wap based info site with rates, partner networks etc. By the way, a while ago a person from telna mobile had asked similar questions. If you do a search for that, you might find the answers useful.

	(#4)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	14-07-2009, 11:23 One more opinion. The funamental problem with all of these is to keep getting revenue from customers, as it is a well known fact that the ratio of free incoming to paid outgoing is heavily stinted to all savy users. I really think that if outgoing rates are more competitive, they will see a lot more useage. The problem is outgoing rates have always been derived from what calls would cost if roaming on your normal home contract. However, to get competitive you really need to start looking beyond that by a long way and instead look at what the competition charges for callbacks. By this I mean the likes of Betamax, Enlinea and Callbackworld. In the case of Betamax callbacks, you may as well forget it as they are pretty much impossible to beat... but close would be good! In any case, it looks like a case of chasing your tail. Free incoming is generally subsidised somewhat by paid outgoing, however as long as there is free incoming it will mean that you open the door to 3rd party callbacks.

	(#5)
beppe_bl (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Fan Posts: 160 Join Date: 15 Jan 2004 Location: Feltre (BL) Country:	15-07-2009, 12:42 to the yackie off topic go http://www.prepaidgsm.net/forum/inte...ie-thread.html

	(#6)
MickyBlue (Offline) Junior Member Newbie Posts: 3 Join Date: 19 May 2009 Country:	15-07-2009, 16:30 I'm interested on how the move towards use of end-user SIP phones will affect the roaming SIM market. Many of us have seperate SIM and SIP (or Skype) services which are not well joined-up. One number (or set of numbers) which rings on whatever devices is handy - and allow any device to be used for outgoing - it seems like a good idea to me, but is it too complex for normal users (i.e. non-PrepaidGSM-readers!) to fathom. And, in anticipation of the next few messages, I know there are many providers with this functionality 'just around the corner' Micky

	(#7)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	15-07-2009, 17:52 On my E71 using the inbuilt SIP features I have various incoming DID's that ring the handset directly whilst I am in 3G, 3.5G or WIFI coverage areas. When I am in 2G they automatically divert and look for me on GSM (at forwarded charge of around 5c/min) Dead straightforward to setup though maybe it takes a bit of a geek. I can't see why someone couldn't sell a package like that, though you might as well set it up yourself. DID's that ring both a SIP address and a PSTN number simultaneously have been around for ages. I used one with Gradwell in the UK at least 3 years ago. Personally, I can't see much use for them in the specific case I outlined above. There would be no point in simultaneously ringing the SIP and PSTN if both are on the same handset.

	(#8)
MickyBlue (Offline) Junior Member Newbie Posts: 3 Join Date: 19 May 2009 Country:	15-07-2009, 19:00 Whether it makes sense on the same handset depends on a few other factors. For example, if you are in a WiFi area you could pick-up the call over SIP and avoid MTCs which are levied in some areas. If I'm travelling on business and am in my hotel room (and hence on the Internet), it may be better to be able to pick calls up on a softphone. Similarly, you could place outbound calls but present the same CLI. I don't disagree that you can already do much of this is you have the knowledge - but maybe to become mainstream somebody needs to put it all together in a turn-key solution.

	(#9)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	16-07-2009, 10:49 Absolutely! It would be nice to see someone put the whole lot in a box and sell it. The main problem that I see so far with the system I outlined above is the fact that it often relies on cheap or practically free data, which in most places is only WiFI. Roaming data rates have a long way to go before VoIP over 3G networks in visiting networks becomes feasible. For now the only work around is dual IMSI with a cheap data bundle for frequently visited countries. Otherwise the system you refer to which is sending a DID to a softfone when you are in WiFI, (say your hotel/overseas business premisis) and GSM at other times is tried and tested. Even Yackie had this on their last SIM offering.