Is Vodafone UA serious about these roaming rates?

wolfbln · **Is Vodafone UA serious about these roaming rates? -** 27-11-2015, 18:05

Hi from prepaid Data Wiki.

In the Ukraine MTS has recently adopted the "Vodafone" brand. This is done presumably to conceal its Russian origin, which is not so popular in many parts of the Ukraine right now.
They follow a risky strategy: in the West they are now branded "Vodafone", in the East ("areas not under the control of the Ukranian army") they are still sold as MTS (MTC in Russian).

But what do you think about their roaming rates:
They sell roaming packages for all Vodafone-branded networks in Europe:
Link in English: https://www.vodafone.ua/en/personal/roaming/prepaid

So that's 500 MB roaming data for 90 UAH = €3.60, 1 GB for 150 UAH = €6 or 5 GB for 270 UAH = €11. Again, this is for roaming and way below most domestic prepaid rates in the countries they cover!
Default rate for overuse is quoted as 10 UAH = €0.40 for 500 MB (!?!).

As we know, the new EU roaming rules will continue to prevent "permanent roaming" by cheap SIM cards from Eastern or Northern Europe. But now the price breaker comes from outside the EU. I can't imagine that Vodafone approves these rates.

In the Ukraine SIM cards are sold for €2 and are not registered yet. So we might see some Ukranians SIMs immigrating .... or they change prices.

rfranzq · 27-11-2015, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfbln

Again, this is for roaming and way below most domestic prepaid rates in the countries they cover! ......As we know, the new EU roaming rules will continue to prevent "permanent roaming" by cheap SIM cards from Eastern or Northern Europe. But now the price breaker comes from outside the EU. I can't imagine that Vodafone approves these rates.
In the Ukraine SIM cards are sold for €2 and are not registered yet. So we might see some Ukranians SIMs immigrating .... or they change prices.

It would seem that Vodafone will have to do any enforcing of the EU stipulations. Perhaps the rates inside the EU will drop to make this offer irrelevant? Or perhaps some other outsider will join this kind of scheme?

wolfbln · 28-11-2015, 00:58

Prepaid rates are not going down in most EU markets right now, on contracts it's another story.
Many countries have gone from 4 to 3 networks, what does not enforce competiton.
Given the fact that more and more data is needed, users are keep on paying more on prepaid.

EU roaming regulations from 2016/7 will have a Fair Use Policy in place severly restricting the "roaming-free" area in time or volume. The details are not set yet.
After all this was what the operators were lobbying for all the time. Their ultimate fear was that a user takes a cheap data SIM from north or east Europe and use it permanently on roaming.

To give you an example:
In Germany no provider sells you 1 GB below €10 on a monthly prepaid plan - that's an average price for Western Europe. In neigboring Poland you get 3 GB for PLN 3 (€0.70) from Orange right now. You see, that's the ultimate fear of the providers, that without roaming surcharges users take the Polish SIM on a permant basis. I think they have a reason, given the price difference. But this will be blocked by the EU which made clear "no permanent roaming" without surcharges.

Now, a player from outside of the EU (Ukraine) offers major EU markets on roaming with 1 GB for €6 or 5 GB for €11. The whole regulation becomes useless as the prices are being cut from outside.

To translate this for the US:
Let's say T-Mobile sells 5 GB on their $30 plan. That's one of the lowest prepaid plans in the US.
The new AT&T in Mexico can't cut this price very much lower, when they offer no roaming fees to Mexicans in the US. Right now, they charge MEX$ 200 (=$12) for 1 GB on their new plans valid all over North America. 1 GB for $12 is not a reason why people from the US would prefer a Mexican SIM card. It's more or less in line.
But the gap in Europe is 50 times as much. What do you do, when you are offered 1 GB for $1 roaming in the US by a company from outside? Would you still stick to T-Mobile US for data?
We can honestly expect that AT&T in Mexico is not so foolish to do this. But now an fictional operater from the Caribbean is just doing this....

inquisitor · 28-11-2015, 01:01

I guess that's either a teaser to attract new subscribers or another explanation could be that MTS UA is bartering airtime with European roaming partners in order to eliminate exchange rate fluctuation, something that is hurting carriers from the CIS countries badly. And as travel volume has probably turned very asymetric (less Ukrainians travelling to Europe) due to the devaluation of the Ukrainian Hryvnia, I could imagine that MTS UA has a lot of unused bartered airtime left that they are trying to monetize by above offer. Again that's only speculation but what I can tell for sure is that swap deals have become extremly popular among carriers in the CIS region due to the currency risks.

peterdoo · 30-11-2015, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfbln

As we know, the new EU roaming rules will continue to prevent "permanent roaming" by cheap SIM cards from Eastern or Northern Europe. But now the price breaker comes from outside the EU. I can't imagine that Vodafone approves these rates.

Vodafone RED tariffs in most countries are moving towards unlimited roaming without any rules that would try to prevent "permanent roaming". For example Spanish RED tariffs which allow unlimited calls in Spain also allow for unlimited calls in EU roaming as well as use of data in the EU (USA, Albania, Turkey and any EU/EEA country, not only Vodafone countries). Similar for Slovenian Vodafone partner Si.mobil. Any remaining surcharges for roaming use in the EU are limited to acceptable relatively low monthly amounts. For that to work I would assume that Vodafone slashed the roaming charges inside the group. Vodafone Ukraine would simply pass those forward to their customers without too high surcharge.
So at least for the contract market I do not see any real danger for the people migrating to other countries' providers. For prepaid we will have to see what the EU regulation will say about the limits for roaming. Anyhow for data-only use it should not be a problem if one needs to swap a SIM card from time to time, so it will not be easy for them to find a way to limit data roaming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfbln

So that's 500 MB roaming data for 90 UAH = €3.60, 1 GB for 150 UAH = €6 or 5 GB for 270 UAH = €11. Again, this is for roaming and way below most domestic prepaid rates in the countries they cover! Default rate for overuse is quoted as 10 UAH = €0.40 for 500 MB (!?!).

These are RED tariffs with obligatory monthly payment for home use. So the complete prices are 30+90UAH/500MB, 50+150UAH/2GB, 90+270UAH/5GB. 5€ per 500 MB does not seem attractive enough for a day to day use replacing a SIM from the home country. The other two are quite attractive, however one has to keep using another phone with a local SIM as I do not think that anybody will spend about 1 to 2€/minute to call an Ukrainian number. I would see these Vodafone UA prepaid SIMs to enter the similar place as Vodafone Italy/Ireland and Orange Spain were occupying in the last years, as far as EU roaming is concerned.

Motel75 · 04-12-2015, 19:59

Hmmm, I'm a Kyivstar user so far, but think I need to get my hands on one of these SIMs.

I wonder whether this agreement could lead to a Vodafone takeover should the political situation in UA stabilize. I can't see MTS continuing to own the network, but right now it might be too early to separate the network in the Russian-occupied bits of the country from the rest.

lover08 · **sim card to sell -** 17-12-2015, 07:19

If someone wants to test it I have to sell these cards.
It comes with 41 UAH money (I can add more or you can add online)
and it has no plan active, you can dial USSD command to activate RED S RED M or RED L it deducts money and 30 days of the plan starts (you have 40 UAH so it is enough for RED S but I can add more money or you can add more money online. I activate roaming so it works in roaming. Write me a message if you want one or any question about this sim (3.90$ shipping with track number + 9.11$ sim card paypal fee included)

wolfbln · 17-12-2015, 22:17

@ lover08
When you sell these SIM cards in or from Germany or the Ukraine, can you first of all confirm the roaming rate announced by Vodafone UA?
I would really like to have some user reports about this SIM for the prepaid data WIKI. If the rates are confirmed and this card gets available more easily in the rest of Europe (e.g. on eBay or through other sales channels), I will feature it more prominenty on the WIKI. But up to now, not many users may feel the need to go by person to the UA first to get a SIM card for EU roaming.

Some questions to you:
> Is it right that for roaming the rate advertised by Vodafone is to be added on top of the domestic rate? E.g. for roaming on the M pack of 2 GB you pay 50 + 150 = 200 UAH. This is not clearly specified on their page here: https://www.vodafone.ua/en/personal/tariffs/prepaid
But it's normally like this with Vodafone's RED tariffs like Peterdoo has said.

> Have you tried to activate a plan like RED S or M by USSD code through a roaming network?

> According to your statement above, roaming is not activated by default on Vodafone UA SIM cards. Right? Can it be activated from abroad? How?? Or does it need to activated by someone located in UA using the home network?

By the way: Kyivstar, the competitor of Vodafone/MTS in the Ukraine has slashed their roaming charges today: http://www.telecompaper.com/news/kyi...ariff--1119439
But e.g. 35 UAH per 100 MB, that's 1.40 EUR in a limited promotion clearly doesn't beat Vodafone.

lover08 · 18-12-2015, 16:24

Hi, it's a pleasure to answer to http://prepaid-data-sim-card.wikia.com/ moderator, your page is very helpful!

VODAFONE UKRAINE
Generally they started to sell Start Package in Ukraine it costs 30 UAH it already has RED S plan inside. From the moment you insert SIM to your mobile so 30 days of RED S starts. And you can add more money and than activate RED M or L

ROAMING
As they don't have pay per minute rates (they have only RED S M L) so you are always inside of some tariff.
Example you are on RED M plan - 30 days starts and it deducted 50 UAH
you go to "Roam like home country" you have two options:
1) to activate "roam like home deal"
2) to use without "roam like home deal"
* you should connect to vodafone only network on the countries you visit ONLY
* in Poland you can connect to any country (there are no Vodafone in Poland as you know)

OPTION ONE - activate roam like home plan
dial *600# and it will activate roam like home plan according to your plan (RED M) and yes it will deduct 150 UAH additional and you will have RED M in countries of the deal (2GB Internet, free facebook viber whatsapp - not include voice on these apps) and
over usage and 50 minutes to Ukraine or within deal countries (15 countries not only to Vodafone numbers)
overuse you pay: 10 UAH / 500 MB (within 30 days cycle from your main rate) and 0.50UAH / minute
fairy usage: speed will go down 6kb/s if you will use more than 5.5GB on RED S 7GB on RED M and 10 RED L (so it means you can max use 5GB by 10 UAH 500 MB) and than speed will be slow (5 UAH 500 MB will still be charged but with speed 6kb/s hardly you can use 500 MB I think)
OPTION TWO: not to activate roam like home deal
In this case you can still enjoy cheaper roaming in 15 countries (vodafone networks only except Poland all networks available)
You will be charged: 30 UAH / DAY on days of usage (calendar day from first usage till 23:59 the same day Ukraine time) and charge internet 500 MB / 10 UAH and minutes 0.50 UAH / minute (till end of the same day)

ROAMING - it should be first time inserted in Ukraine to be roaming active.

I have special MTC cards with possibility open to transfer to Vodafone by USSD command. So you have no monthly fees rate and when you dial USSD command it activates RED S M or L
(some MTC sim card also have this possibility but only new batches)

My cards are MTC active specially prepared for Vodafone (it should appear 3G on these cards at least) and yes I tested USSD command abroad and it worked, they deducted money and sent SMS in Russian that I have successfully purchased Vodafone S etc. Also online portal MTC shows tariff plan Vodafone S

I just tested it in Israel and it is not included in deal countries so I didn't test speed of Internet etc. just tested USSD command it works fine

Kyivstar deal is not so good - 100 MB 35 UAH is quite good price but this is daily fee 35 UAH and if you use more than 100 MB so internet blocks till next day

Alex

wolfbln · 18-01-2016, 10:17

Well, this Vodafone offer has arrived outside of the Ukraine now on eBay:

advertised as "best roaming ever".
So if anyone is tempted, I would like to get your feedback about this SIM for the prepaid data WIKI. (I'm currently traveling in Asia, so I can't test it).
If these rates for data and calls persist, they will beat any EU roaming cap. In fact they represent in many countries the cheapest domestic option.
But to feature it more promiently, I'm going to need user reports about handling, top-ups, speeds a.s.o.

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	(#1)
wolfbln (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 206 Join Date: 14 Jul 2014 Country:	Is Vodafone UA serious about these roaming rates? - 27-11-2015, 18:05 Hi from prepaid Data Wiki. In the Ukraine MTS has recently adopted the "Vodafone" brand. This is done presumably to conceal its Russian origin, which is not so popular in many parts of the Ukraine right now. They follow a risky strategy: in the West they are now branded "Vodafone", in the East ("areas not under the control of the Ukranian army") they are still sold as MTS (MTC in Russian). But what do you think about their roaming rates: They sell roaming packages for all Vodafone-branded networks in Europe: Link in English: https://www.vodafone.ua/en/personal/roaming/prepaid So that's 500 MB roaming data for 90 UAH = €3.60, 1 GB for 150 UAH = €6 or 5 GB for 270 UAH = €11. Again, this is for roaming and way below most domestic prepaid rates in the countries they cover! Default rate for overuse is quoted as 10 UAH = €0.40 for 500 MB (!?!). As we know, the new EU roaming rules will continue to prevent "permanent roaming" by cheap SIM cards from Eastern or Northern Europe. But now the price breaker comes from outside the EU. I can't imagine that Vodafone approves these rates. In the Ukraine SIM cards are sold for €2 and are not registered yet. So we might see some Ukranians SIMs immigrating .... or they change prices.

	(#3)
wolfbln (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 206 Join Date: 14 Jul 2014 Country:	28-11-2015, 00:58 Prepaid rates are not going down in most EU markets right now, on contracts it's another story. Many countries have gone from 4 to 3 networks, what does not enforce competiton. Given the fact that more and more data is needed, users are keep on paying more on prepaid. EU roaming regulations from 2016/7 will have a Fair Use Policy in place severly restricting the "roaming-free" area in time or volume. The details are not set yet. After all this was what the operators were lobbying for all the time. Their ultimate fear was that a user takes a cheap data SIM from north or east Europe and use it permanently on roaming. To give you an example: In Germany no provider sells you 1 GB below €10 on a monthly prepaid plan - that's an average price for Western Europe. In neigboring Poland you get 3 GB for PLN 3 (€0.70) from Orange right now. You see, that's the ultimate fear of the providers, that without roaming surcharges users take the Polish SIM on a permant basis. I think they have a reason, given the price difference. But this will be blocked by the EU which made clear "no permanent roaming" without surcharges. Now, a player from outside of the EU (Ukraine) offers major EU markets on roaming with 1 GB for €6 or 5 GB for €11. The whole regulation becomes useless as the prices are being cut from outside. To translate this for the US: Let's say T-Mobile sells 5 GB on their $30 plan. That's one of the lowest prepaid plans in the US. The new AT&T in Mexico can't cut this price very much lower, when they offer no roaming fees to Mexicans in the US. Right now, they charge MEX$ 200 (=$12) for 1 GB on their new plans valid all over North America. 1 GB for $12 is not a reason why people from the US would prefer a Mexican SIM card. It's more or less in line. But the gap in Europe is 50 times as much. What do you do, when you are offered 1 GB for $1 roaming in the US by a company from outside? Would you still stick to T-Mobile US for data? We can honestly expect that AT&T in Mexico is not so foolish to do this. But now an fictional operater from the Caribbean is just doing this.... Last edited by wolfbln; 28-11-2015 at 01:28..

	(#4)
inquisitor (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Professionist Posts: 1,399 Join Date: 15 Nov 2006 Country:	28-11-2015, 01:01 I guess that's either a teaser to attract new subscribers or another explanation could be that MTS UA is bartering airtime with European roaming partners in order to eliminate exchange rate fluctuation, something that is hurting carriers from the CIS countries badly. And as travel volume has probably turned very asymetric (less Ukrainians travelling to Europe) due to the devaluation of the Ukrainian Hryvnia, I could imagine that MTS UA has a lot of unused bartered airtime left that they are trying to monetize by above offer. Again that's only speculation but what I can tell for sure is that swap deals have become extremly popular among carriers in the CIS region due to the currency risks. terminals: Samsung: Galaxy S5 DuoS (G900FD); BLU: Win HD LTE; Nokia: 1200; Asus: Fonepad 7 ME372CG; Huawei data: E3372, Vodafone R201, K3765, E1762; postpaid: O2 on Business XL; prepaid: DE: Aldi Talk, Lidl; UK: 3; BG: MTel, vivacom; RU: MTS; RS: MTS; UAE: du Tourist SIM; INT'L: toggle mobile VoIP: sipgate.de (German DID); sipgate.co.uk (British DID); ukddi.com (British DID); sipcall.ch (Swiss DID); megafon.bg (Bulgarian DID); InterVoip.com

	(#6)
Motel75 (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 573 Join Date: 15 Jun 2006 Location: Berlin Country:	04-12-2015, 19:59 Hmmm, I'm a Kyivstar user so far, but think I need to get my hands on one of these SIMs. I wonder whether this agreement could lead to a Vodafone takeover should the political situation in UA stabilize. I can't see MTS continuing to own the network, but right now it might be too early to separate the network in the Russian-occupied bits of the country from the rest. Current DE: Vodafone, Netzklub; PL: Klucz, Virgin; UK: Giffgaff, Vodafone; US: T-Mobile; CA: 7-Eleven; IT: Vodafone; UA: Kyivstar; FR: Bouygues; GR: Vodafone Former DE: Vodafone, T-Mobile, O2, Blauworld, 01051mobile, Solomo, Lycamobile, Simyo, Congstar, Fonic, Edeka Mobile, Lidl Mobile; PL: Heyah, Era, Virgin, Sami Swoi, Orange, POP, iPlus, Carrefour Mova, Telepin Mobi, Play, Lycamobile, T-Mobile; UK: Vodafone, T-Mobile, Virgin; US: T-Mobile, AT&T, Lycamobile; CZ: Vodafone, Oskar; ES: Lebara; GR: Vodafone, Wind; UA: Vodafone; IL: Orange; TR: Turkcell

	(#7)
lover08 (Offline) Member Official Member Posts: 41 Join Date: 13 Mar 2012 Country:	sim card to sell - 17-12-2015, 07:19 If someone wants to test it I have to sell these cards. It comes with 41 UAH money (I can add more or you can add online) and it has no plan active, you can dial USSD command to activate RED S RED M or RED L it deducts money and 30 days of the plan starts (you have 40 UAH so it is enough for RED S but I can add more money or you can add more money online. I activate roaming so it works in roaming. Write me a message if you want one or any question about this sim (3.90$ shipping with track number + 9.11$ sim card paypal fee included)

	(#8)
wolfbln (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 206 Join Date: 14 Jul 2014 Country:	17-12-2015, 22:17 @ lover08 When you sell these SIM cards in or from Germany or the Ukraine, can you first of all confirm the roaming rate announced by Vodafone UA? I would really like to have some user reports about this SIM for the prepaid data WIKI. If the rates are confirmed and this card gets available more easily in the rest of Europe (e.g. on eBay or through other sales channels), I will feature it more prominenty on the WIKI. But up to now, not many users may feel the need to go by person to the UA first to get a SIM card for EU roaming. Some questions to you: > Is it right that for roaming the rate advertised by Vodafone is to be added on top of the domestic rate? E.g. for roaming on the M pack of 2 GB you pay 50 + 150 = 200 UAH. This is not clearly specified on their page here: https://www.vodafone.ua/en/personal/tariffs/prepaid But it's normally like this with Vodafone's RED tariffs like Peterdoo has said. > Have you tried to activate a plan like RED S or M by USSD code through a roaming network? > According to your statement above, roaming is not activated by default on Vodafone UA SIM cards. Right? Can it be activated from abroad? How?? Or does it need to activated by someone located in UA using the home network? By the way: Kyivstar, the competitor of Vodafone/MTS in the Ukraine has slashed their roaming charges today: http://www.telecompaper.com/news/kyi...ariff--1119439 But e.g. 35 UAH per 100 MB, that's 1.40 EUR in a limited promotion clearly doesn't beat Vodafone. Last edited by wolfbln; 17-12-2015 at 22:26..

	(#9)
lover08 (Offline) Member Official Member Posts: 41 Join Date: 13 Mar 2012 Country:	18-12-2015, 16:24 Hi, it's a pleasure to answer to http://prepaid-data-sim-card.wikia.com/ moderator, your page is very helpful! VODAFONE UKRAINE Generally they started to sell Start Package in Ukraine it costs 30 UAH it already has RED S plan inside. From the moment you insert SIM to your mobile so 30 days of RED S starts. And you can add more money and than activate RED M or L ROAMING As they don't have pay per minute rates (they have only RED S M L) so you are always inside of some tariff. Example you are on RED M plan - 30 days starts and it deducted 50 UAH you go to "Roam like home country" you have two options: 1) to activate "roam like home deal" 2) to use without "roam like home deal" * you should connect to vodafone only network on the countries you visit ONLY * in Poland you can connect to any country (there are no Vodafone in Poland as you know) OPTION ONE - activate roam like home plan dial *600# and it will activate roam like home plan according to your plan (RED M) and yes it will deduct 150 UAH additional and you will have RED M in countries of the deal (2GB Internet, free facebook viber whatsapp - not include voice on these apps) and over usage and 50 minutes to Ukraine or within deal countries (15 countries not only to Vodafone numbers) overuse you pay: 10 UAH / 500 MB (within 30 days cycle from your main rate) and 0.50UAH / minute fairy usage: speed will go down 6kb/s if you will use more than 5.5GB on RED S 7GB on RED M and 10 RED L (so it means you can max use 5GB by 10 UAH 500 MB) and than speed will be slow (5 UAH 500 MB will still be charged but with speed 6kb/s hardly you can use 500 MB I think) OPTION TWO: not to activate roam like home deal In this case you can still enjoy cheaper roaming in 15 countries (vodafone networks only except Poland all networks available) You will be charged: 30 UAH / DAY on days of usage (calendar day from first usage till 23:59 the same day Ukraine time) and charge internet 500 MB / 10 UAH and minutes 0.50 UAH / minute (till end of the same day) ROAMING - it should be first time inserted in Ukraine to be roaming active. I have special MTC cards with possibility open to transfer to Vodafone by USSD command. So you have no monthly fees rate and when you dial USSD command it activates RED S M or L (some MTC sim card also have this possibility but only new batches) My cards are MTC active specially prepared for Vodafone (it should appear 3G on these cards at least) and yes I tested USSD command abroad and it worked, they deducted money and sent SMS in Russian that I have successfully purchased Vodafone S etc. Also online portal MTC shows tariff plan Vodafone S I just tested it in Israel and it is not included in deal countries so I didn't test speed of Internet etc. just tested USSD command it works fine Kyivstar deal is not so good - 100 MB 35 UAH is quite good price but this is daily fee 35 UAH and if you use more than 100 MB so internet blocks till next day Alex

	(#10)
wolfbln (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 206 Join Date: 14 Jul 2014 Country:	18-01-2016, 10:17 Well, this Vodafone offer has arrived outside of the Ukraine now on eBay: http://www.ebay.de/itm/New-3G-Vodafo...-/301830645893 http://www.ebay.com/itm/-/252254561009 advertised as "best roaming ever". So if anyone is tempted, I would like to get your feedback about this SIM for the prepaid data WIKI. (I'm currently traveling in Asia, so I can't test it). If these rates for data and calls persist, they will beat any EU roaming cap. In fact they represent in many countries the cheapest domestic option. But to feature it more promiently, I'm going to need user reports about handling, top-ups, speeds a.s.o.