Belgium 'abolished'

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by AdmiralAK

they bigger question is this: will the flanders join the EU ? :P :P :P

Even if not, Brussels is an enclave in Flanders, not its part. It would be enough if the City of Brussels remained in the EU . And NATO HQ are Mons in Wallonia, so Wallonia should remain in NATO, too .

More about splits and unifications. Thanks to split of the USSR and Czechoslovakia and reunification of Germany, between 3th Oct 1990 and 1st Jan 1993 my country lost its all 3 neighbours and gained 7 new ones .
It had one funny consequence. Until 1989, communist authorities issued special passports "valid in socialist countries only". After 1989 transformations those passports were still valid. However, because 3 neighbour countries (USSR, Czechoslovakia and GDR) ceased to exist, after 1st Jan 1993 it was possible to cross the Polish border with those passports only by air (e.g. flying to Hungary)

[Malkav]

i think Belgium SHOULD be abolished...hehehehe then again 'its a silly place' hehehehe they cant decide between being french or dutch hehehehe

[Asick]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Until 1989, communist authorities issued special passports "valid in socialist countries only". After 1989 transformations those passports were still valid. However, because 3 neighbour countries (USSR, Czechoslovakia and GDR) ceased to exist, after 1st Jan 1993 it was possible to cross the Polish border with those passports only by air (e.g. flying to Hungary)

What a Pole should have done to enter a non socialist country? Was it necessary to apply for another passport? Was it easy to cross socialist to socialist borders? In USSR people just kept passports for internal use, any foreign trips required another 'foreign' passport that you could not easily get.

[Przemolog]

Originally Posted by Asick

What a Pole should have done to enter a non socialist country? Was it necessary to apply for another passport? Was it easy to cross socialist to socialist borders? In USSR people just kept passports for internal use, any foreign trips required another 'foreign' passport that you could not easily get.

What you call 'passport for internal use', in Poland is named "dowód osobisty" what stands for "personal proof (of identification)". Now it's just a plastic ID card (credit card format) valid in EU, Norway, Iceland and (not 100% sure) Switzerland. However, until recently it was a small green booklet. "Dowód osobisty" was also often a document used for travelling to socialist countries (especially 1971-1981) and to Germany, Czech Rep. and Slovakia for inhabitans of border zones only (1993-2004).
For going to non-socialist country a special passport, valid "for the all the country of the world" had to be used. It was valid usually for 3 years, either single or multiple use. Even if it was a multiple use one, it had to be deposited in the passport office right after the return. "Socialist" passport were kept at home at valid for 10 years.

Difficulties of crossing the borders were changing along time. Until 1971, going abroad usually required to be a businness trip, organised tour or a invitation from a foreigner - no matter from a socialist country or not (of course, it was much easier to go socialist countries). 1971-1980 was a "golden decade" . Travelling to European sociallist countries was practically free of restrictions (excluding USSR). Travelling to "West" was relatively easy, too (it was possible to travel at least one year and to buy officially $150/year). In 1980, invitations for Polish citizens travelling to socialist countries were reintroduced (but other countries) as a "punishment" for the Solidarity movement. "Martial law" decade (1981-1989) was generally a return to the situation prior to 1971 - the law was pretty restrictive. In February 1989 the last communist goverment changed its attitude and started to give "all the world" passports to everyone without any special restrictions. Hovewer, invitation requirements "survived" 1989 (but these were requirements of other countries): East Germany until 1990 (unification of Germany), Czechoslovakia until 1991, Baltic states until late 1990's and Russia and the rest of the former USSR until visa introduction in 2003 (however, it was always easy to skip invitation requirements by buying "never-to-be-used hotel vouchers" )

[Malkav]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Even if not, Brussels is an enclave in Flanders, not its part. It would be enough if the City of Brussels remained in the EU . And NATO HQ are Mons in Wallonia, so Wallonia should remain in NATO, too .

More about splits and unifications. Thanks to split of the USSR and Czechoslovakia and reunification of Germany, between 3th Oct 1990 and 1st Jan 1993 my country lost its all 3 neighbours and gained 7 new ones .
It had one funny consequence. Until 1989, communist authorities issued special passports "valid in socialist countries only". After 1989 transformations those passports were still valid. However, because 3 neighbour countries (USSR, Czechoslovakia and GDR) ceased to exist, after 1st Jan 1993 it was possible to cross the Polish border with those passports only by air (e.g. flying to Hungary)

what about other red freindly countries ;ike north korea, china and cuba? oh and what about switzerland (bloody dog eaters....!)?

[AndreA]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Now it's just a plastic ID card (credit card format) valid in EU, Norway, Iceland and (not 100% sure) Switzerland.

Free movement: Switzerland

Information on the transitional rules governing the free movement of workers from, to and between the new member states
In the Member Countries of the European Economic Area (EEA) the free movement of workers is a fundamental right which permits nationals of one EEA country to work in another EEA country on the same conditions as that member state's own citizens.
During a transitional period of up to 7 years from 1 May 2004, certain conditions may be applied that restrict the free movement of workers from, to and between the new member states (2).
These restrictions only concern the freedom of movement for the purpose of taking up a job and they may differ from one member state to another.
By selecting a country in the list below you will find out which rules apply in that country to job seekers from other member states.

(2) - Cyprus - Czech Republic - Estonia - Hungary - Latvia - Lithuania - Malta - Poland - Slovakia - Slovenia

Conditions and procedures governing the gainful employment in Switzerland of nationals of the ten new Members States of the EU (with the exception of Cyprus and Malta)

The protocol for extending bilateral agreements (between Switzerland and the European Union) to the ten new EU Member States entered into force on 1 April 2006. For citizens of these ten new Member States, however, certain restrictions on taking up employment in Switzerland are still in place.

What are the procedures for employing a national of one of the ten new Member States of the EU (with the exception of Cyprus and Malta)?

-As an employer, you must contact the relevant authority, generally speaking the labour market authority, and apply for a work permit for the person whom you wish to employ.

-You must also respect the working and salary conditions in force in your branch and in the profession of the person for whom you are applying for a permit. Applications will be subject to annual quotas, in particular as regards unskilled jobs in the agricultural sector.

-You may apply for either a residence permit of up to 12 months or up to five years. If you wish to employ a person for less than four months for an unskilled position, you may only do so if the quotas for permits are not full. The same applies if you wish to employ said person for more than four years.

N.B.: All citizens of Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Lithuania, Estonia or Latvia require a residence/work permit even if the duration of their employment is for less than three months. They must be in possession of a residence/work permit from the first day of taking up employment.

What are the procedures for employing a self employed worker to provide services in Switzerland?

Self employed workers from the new Member States of the EU shall be subject to the same conditions as those of the old Member States. Self employed workers will only be subject to quotas up until 31 May 2007. As his/her representative, you need only ensure that the person has registered with the relevant authorities.

Conditions for carrying out gainful employment in Switzerland if you are a national of the ten new Member States of the European Union, except Cyprus and Malta.

The protocol for extending bilateral agreements (between Switzerland and the European Union) to the ten new EU Member States entered into force on 1 April 2006. For citizens of eight new Member States, however, certain restrictions on taking up employment in Switzerland are still in place.

If you wish to work as a salaried employee, you must find an employer who has been authorised to employ nationals of the ten new Member States.
In order to receive this authorisation, the employer in Switzerland must prove that he has made efforts to recruit from the domestic labour market and that he has not found suitable workers (from among Swiss or foreign workers in the Swiss labour market). The employer must respect the working and salary conditions in force in his branch and in the profession. Applications will be subject to annual quotas, in particular as regards unskilled jobs in the agricultural sector.

What to do
As a salaried worker it is not up to you to obtain a residence permit. Rather, it is the employer who submits the application to the relevant local authority (generally speaking, where the labour market is located). The employer may apply for either a residence permit of up to 12 months or up to five years. In order to employ you, the employer must meet the above conditions. If the employer wishes to employ you for less than four months for an unskilled position, he may only do so if the quotas for permits are not full. The same applies if he wishes to employ you for more than four years. As regards entry into Switzerland, you require a valid national passport or identity card.

N.B.: if you are a national of one of the following countries: Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Slovakia, Lithuania, Estonia or Latvia, you require a residence/work permit even if the length of your employment is under three months. You must be in possession of said residence/work permit from the first day of taking up employment.

If you wish to work in Switzerland as a self employed person.

Self employed workers from the new EU Member States shall be subject to the same conditions as those from the old EU Member States. As a self employed worker, you will only be subject to quotas up until 31 May 2007.

Conditions for carrying out gainful employment in Switzerland if you are a citizen of the former EU 15 Member States or the EFTA countries, including Malta and Cyprus.

The various agreements signed between Switzerland and the former EU 15 Member States include the agreement on the free movement of persons. It concerns salaried workers, self employed workers, service providers, recipients of services and non active persons (retired persons, students, etc.)

If you wish to work in Switzerland, you are entitled to go there for a maximum of six months to seek employment. Once you have an employment contract or a declaration of employment from an employer or if you can prove that you carry out a self employed activity, you may obtain a residence permit. This permit will be issued to you for the length of your employment contract and is renewable. If the your contract is for less than 12 months, your residence permit may be extended for up to 12 months.

If you carry out a self employed activity, you do not require a residence permit if you provide services for less than 90 days, but you must register with the relevant local authorities (www.bfm.admin.ch/index.php?id=364&L=1#2544) in the place where you supply your services. If you provide services for more than 90 days, you will receive a residence permit for the time taken to provide your services.

Conditions for Swiss citizens carrying out an activity in the Member States of the European Union and the EFTA countries.

The agreement signed between Switzerland and the European Union allow Swiss citizens to seek employment in EU and EFTA countries.

If you are a Swiss national, you are entitled to go to those countries for six months to seek employment. Once you have an employment contract or a declaration of employment from an employer, or if you can prove that you carry out a self employed activity, you may obtain a residence permit. As regards entry requirements, you need a valid national passport or identity card.

Restrictions applicable to service providers
- For the ten new Member States of the EU (except Cyprus and Malta)
The provision of services for a maximum duration of three months (90 days) per calendar year is subject to a procedure of announcement.
www.bfm.admin.ch/index.php?id=307&L=1
www.bfm.admin.ch/index.php?id=
except in the case of cross-border service providers (up to 90 days) in certain sectors (construction, industrial cleaning, security, horticulture), who are subject to the restrictions in force on the labour market (priority to workers integrated into the regular labour market, prior verification of wages and application of the Swiss criteria regarding qualifications). A residence permit is generally necessary. You can find out more about the restrictions on the website of the Federal Office for Migration.
www.bfm.admin.ch/index.php?L=1

[andy]

All that detail - it looks like you're planning to go and work there

[AndreA]

Originally Posted by andy

All that detail - it looks like you're planning to go and work there

Me? Why not?

[Asick]

Originally Posted by Przemolog

Russia and the rest of the former USSR until visa introduction in 2003 (however, it was always easy to skip invitation requirements by buying "never-to-be-used hotel vouchers" )

Oh, these vouchers... The same thing needed to enter Poland till 2003 for Russian citizens, which in fact meant free entry state because you could buy such a voucher almost everywhere on your way (on railway stations, in a train going to Poland from some merchants etc.). Now it's not that easy, currently it is the worst period for exUSSR people travelling to West from time to time, because East Europe has not joined Schengen area still (by the way, when will these countries join it?), so for example it's not enough to have just a German visa in a Russian passport to cross Baltic states going there. Poland allowed such visa free transit since 90s and keeps it valid, Latvia allowed it since 1st December 2006, Hungary and Czech Republic did it since 1st September, but some other new EU members has not allowed it yet. Currently, if I have a Lithuanian visa I may enter Poland and then go to Lithuania, but I can't do the opposite route with Polish visa in my passport. If I need to go to Istanbul by a train, I have to get both Romanian and Bulgarian transit visas, which is crazy and not that easy since Turks used to put their visa at their border... and so on. Most of Russians are set behind iron curtain from the West again, because it's close to impossible to go 2000-3000 km to a nearest embassy just to fill up an application form and then make this way again just to get visa in their own hands.

Thanks a lot for the detailed explaination of what you had in Poland till 90s with abroad travels and regulations. Honestly, I didn't know that socialistic countries except of USSR had a sort of their own free travel area, so it was easy to cross from Poland to GDR, for example. Did they put those restrictions back in 80s right after Wojciech Jaruzelski proclamed state of war? On the contrary, USSR was generally closed from any country around, I mean you had to had some significant reasons to visit another country (even 'socialistic' one), which could be some things from military service to diplomatic work. Private visits were quite difficult, which was the essence of that iron curtain. :-/ 'Foreign' passports were also stored at authorities while you at home (however, AFAIR it was allowed to keep them at home since late Gorbatchev but people still needed exit visa every time they go abroad), I'm not sure if they were single or multiple use, it didn't really matter since you had to obtain it back for any visit you plan. Now Russians still have both 'internal' (all the people) and 'foreign' (those who applied for it and had no preventing reasons such as sues or valid top secret access) passports, but no exit visas needed since 1993 or may be earlier. On the contrary, some exUSSR republics use the only passport valid both for home and abroad, carrying just a 'foreign usage allowed' mark.

[Effendi]

Originally Posted by Asick

currently it is the worst period for exUSSR people travelling to West from time to time, because East Europe has not joined Schengen area still (by the way, when will these countries join it?), so for example it's not enough to have just a German visa in a Russian passport to cross Baltic states going there.

It's the same for us "westerners" if we want to travel around CIS countries, we need a different VISA for every country, making the journey very expensive and complicated. Of course there are not so many crazy people like me which like to go on holiday in CIS countries so the problem is less important than the opposite! BTW, I fear won't come to St.Petersburg this time as well... at the travel agency they told me to book after Christmas, but now that damned Lufthansa has cancelled that great offer for flying to Russia