Cloud 9 Launches in Isle of Man

RTuesday · **Cloud 9 Launches in Isle of Man -** 21-06-2007, 19:58

Cloud 9 (www.cloud9.im) launched their Isle of Man mobile network today, including prepaid.

They're the second network to launch here, after Manx Telecom, but Sure Mobile (www.surething.im) should be following within days.

Personally I think Cloud9 are going to be the number three player, if they survive. There's really very little in their offer to attract most local customers, although for me some of their roaming could be interesting - so I got a sim.

The sims are "free", although need a GBP 10.00 initial recharge to activate, but if the initial recharge is 20.00 there is a startup offer of 1000 free texts (doesn't say if the offer applies to texting while roaming).

The expiry times on the recharges are debatable. The dealer claims they don't expire, and I checked with the call centre and they agreed. But printed on the voucher is a "90 days from first use" expiry, and a second call to the call centre claimed that was accurate. I'll be chasing this up!

The number range is +44 7924 5xx xxx. This is where they've made a serious blunder (or been unable to find a work-around) - here people are used to dialling just 6 digits for both landline (6xx xxx, 7xx xxx, 8xx xxx) or Manx Telecom mobile (3xx xxx, 4xx xxx). But the short dialling doesn't work for Cloud 9. It's going to take a lot of education and marketing to get people to dial longer numbers, can't see them getting around this major disadvantage unless their deals are fantastic, and they're not.

The rates are really complex (lots of exceptions by carrier etc), very hard to work out. The normal roaming rates are literally unpublished, i.e. random based on what the carrier passes on (so unusable). Free incoming in "all of Europe" (no country list shown - reading the small print it looks like it may be free some other places as well, such as Australia, but unclear).

But, they do have built-in callback - enter a number with a # after it and it initiates a callback, with charges of 10p/min (US20c) on each leg for most local/EU calls (higher outbound to mobiles and some carriers/countries). Haven't tried this yet (as I'm not roaming).

Incoming calls can also be forwarded (and calls made from) a VOIP client, seems a bit expensive for that but VOIP outbound to most European mobiles (jncluding Liechtenstein!) for 20p (40c/Eu28c) is sort of usable.

All in all WAY too complex for most local users, it'll flop locally (mainly because of numbering and poor marketing).

But it could have limited use as an international sim with outbound calls to/from most of Europe around 20p/US40c/Eu28c/min (50% more to call mobile). At least being a "real" carrier the rates should hopefully change less often than most of the Manx SIMs.

petkow · 24-06-2007, 01:03

Apparently free incoming calls whilst roaming on weekdays only!

andy · 25-06-2007, 11:46

I think it could be worth asking more about the callback system

It may be that as incoming calls are free in Europe, then the outgoing calls are 10p and 20p for landlines and mobiles.

In fact maybe they don't use callback within Europe. This is the impression I get from a phone call just now, but I wonder if I've got the wrong idea of what was said.

RTuesday · 25-06-2007, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy

This is the impression I get from a phone call just now, but I wonder if I've got the wrong idea of what was said.

This is the problem I'm finding with Cloud9 - so much is unpublished, and because it's new nobody knows anything about how it works (including the people answering the phone). I've had completely contradictory stories on whether the credit expires, for example.

As far as I can see though, the callback is designed to work in Europe as well. Free incoming, so "calls within Europe are the cost of two local calls" they say - the local area (same rate) is 10p/min to IOM/UK + Europe fixed, so that would work (20p/min, or 30p/min to an EU mobile or US fixed/mobile).

What they don't say (amongst many other things) is how much the incoming is at weekends! Or how much the incoming is outside Europe (the small print at the bottom of the rates appears to show incoming surcharges in the usual countries such as US, but doesn't show what happens with places like Australia).

(edit) BTW, the IOM Cable and Wireless website is now online ready for their launch in a few days: www.surething.im . Nothing special on their roaming rates at all, very traditional, not cheap, and limited countries for PAYG. Strangely they don't even try to compete on local call prices, looks like the focus is on contracts/free handsets.

inquisitor · 25-06-2007, 18:23

Are you guys sure that the callback-leg to the Cloud9-subscriber is charged with 10p/min only? I expect they'll charge it as a mobile call at 20p/min.

The lack of information on their website is a shame!

If incoming roaming-calls are free on weekdays only, I'll keep my UM SIM.

Does anyone know if Cloud9 aims to international customers? Will they ship their prepaid SIMs abroad soon?

RTuesday · 25-06-2007, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by inquisitor

Are you guys sure that the callback-leg to the Cloud9-subscriber is charged with 10p/min only? I expect they'll charge it as a mobile call at 20p/min.

Calls to Cloud9 mobiles are charged at the same rate as a fixed line (i.e. 10p/min). It's only other mobiles that are 20p. So callback calls to fixed line would be 20p, callback to a different mobile 30p.

Callbacks between two Cloud9 mobiles in Europe (when free incoming applies!) would be 20p/min ($0.40, Eur 0,28 ), which could be very interesting for a family group that needs to keep in touch travelling to multiple European countries. (assuming the callback actually works that is, and they don't need high quality).

Quote:

Does anyone know if Cloud9 aims to international customers? Will they ship their prepaid SIMs abroad soon?

They're barely marketing it locally yet. Definately a "soft-launch" - just available through a few dealers. Not surprising as it isn't really ready.

There are definate quality problems with Cloud9. Much poorer quality calls than Manx Telecom, not just voicemail but all calls, even local (just did some direct comparision tests). If the problem is because they're mainly a VOIP company and the routing is ultra-cheap or ultra-compressed it could well be the same when roaming. Add in a callback round-trip delay and it could be too bad to be usable.

RTuesday · 07-07-2007, 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTuesday

Personally I think Cloud9 are going to be the number three player, if they survive..

It's already looking like they may not survive! There are rumours on the Island tonight that Cloud9 may be going out of business.

Just rumours, BUT at the moment it's not possible to make an outbound call on the network, the callback doesn't callback, and inbound calls go to voicemail...

Marketing-wise, their launch was barely visible locally, I can't imagine they've sold much.

They've had problems from day one, but 14 days from launch to close would probably be a new record for a GSM operator with their own infrastructure! Maybe they'll limp on for a while longer, but it's not looking good.

Anybody want to buy a slightly-used mobile operator?

AndreA · 07-07-2007, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTuesday

They've had problems from day one, but 14 days from launch to close would probably be a new record for a GSM operator with their own infrastructure!

14 days is not so good... Ipse Italy closed before to open :P

Quote:

Anybody want to buy a slightly-used mobile operator?

Oh yes, the PrePaidGSM's network

andy · 07-07-2007, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTuesday

It's already looking like they may not survive! There are rumours on the Island tonight that Cloud9 may be going out of business.

Just rumours, BUT at the moment it's not possible to make an outbound call on the network, the callback doesn't callback, and inbound calls go to voicemail...

Marketing-wise, their launch was barely visible locally, I can't imagine they've sold much.

They've had problems from day one, but 14 days from launch to close would probably be a new record for a GSM operator with their own infrastructure! Maybe they'll limp on for a while longer, but it's not looking good.

Anybody want to buy a slightly-used mobile operator?

Once upon a time, there were rumours that Orange was going out of business.

When they listed only 2 dealers in a city of about 200,000, I rang one of them and was asked why on earth I was interested, and why didn't I choose Vodafone instead (which comment I reported back to Orange).

I think someone bought it in the end

But I agree it's not promising

RTuesday · 28-08-2007, 13:08

Just an update on the (lack of) progress at Cloud9.

I tried it out roaming in the UK/France/Spain recently. Wouldn't log on to a single network anywhere, i.e. no roaming.

I emailed them to complain about this and (what a surprise) got a roaming update SMS after I got home. No idea if that's made a difference as I haven't been away since.

However, I also got a reply to my complaint email - after 4 weeks! - where they completely failed to understand the problem (assumed I was dialling wrong). They sent their reply email from an address which bounces when replied to.

In a word, AVOID. Makes Yackie look professional.

	(#1)
RTuesday (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 344 Join Date: 28 Mar 2005 Location: See flag Country:	Cloud 9 Launches in Isle of Man - 21-06-2007, 19:58 Cloud 9 (www.cloud9.im) launched their Isle of Man mobile network today, including prepaid. They're the second network to launch here, after Manx Telecom, but Sure Mobile (www.surething.im) should be following within days. Personally I think Cloud9 are going to be the number three player, if they survive. There's really very little in their offer to attract most local customers, although for me some of their roaming could be interesting - so I got a sim. The sims are "free", although need a GBP 10.00 initial recharge to activate, but if the initial recharge is 20.00 there is a startup offer of 1000 free texts (doesn't say if the offer applies to texting while roaming). The expiry times on the recharges are debatable. The dealer claims they don't expire, and I checked with the call centre and they agreed. But printed on the voucher is a "90 days from first use" expiry, and a second call to the call centre claimed that was accurate. I'll be chasing this up! The number range is +44 7924 5xx xxx. This is where they've made a serious blunder (or been unable to find a work-around) - here people are used to dialling just 6 digits for both landline (6xx xxx, 7xx xxx, 8xx xxx) or Manx Telecom mobile (3xx xxx, 4xx xxx). But the short dialling doesn't work for Cloud 9. It's going to take a lot of education and marketing to get people to dial longer numbers, can't see them getting around this major disadvantage unless their deals are fantastic, and they're not. The rates are really complex (lots of exceptions by carrier etc), very hard to work out. The normal roaming rates are literally unpublished, i.e. random based on what the carrier passes on (so unusable). Free incoming in "all of Europe" (no country list shown - reading the small print it looks like it may be free some other places as well, such as Australia, but unclear). But, they do have built-in callback - enter a number with a # after it and it initiates a callback, with charges of 10p/min (US20c) on each leg for most local/EU calls (higher outbound to mobiles and some carriers/countries). Haven't tried this yet (as I'm not roaming). Incoming calls can also be forwarded (and calls made from) a VOIP client, seems a bit expensive for that but VOIP outbound to most European mobiles (jncluding Liechtenstein!) for 20p (40c/Eu28c) is sort of usable. All in all WAY too complex for most local users, it'll flop locally (mainly because of numbering and poor marketing). But it could have limited use as an international sim with outbound calls to/from most of Europe around 20p/US40c/Eu28c/min (50% more to call mobile). At least being a "real" carrier the rates should hopefully change less often than most of the Manx SIMs.

	(#2)
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 696 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	24-06-2007, 01:03 Apparently free incoming calls whilst roaming on weekdays only!

	(#3)
andy (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Prophet Posts: 2,128 Join Date: 10 Dec 2004 Country:	25-06-2007, 11:46 I think it could be worth asking more about the callback system It may be that as incoming calls are free in Europe, then the outgoing calls are 10p and 20p for landlines and mobiles. In fact maybe they don't use callback within Europe. This is the impression I get from a phone call just now, but I wonder if I've got the wrong idea of what was said.

	(#5)
inquisitor (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Professionist Posts: 1,399 Join Date: 15 Nov 2006 Country:	25-06-2007, 18:23 Are you guys sure that the callback-leg to the Cloud9-subscriber is charged with 10p/min only? I expect they'll charge it as a mobile call at 20p/min. The lack of information on their website is a shame! If incoming roaming-calls are free on weekdays only, I'll keep my UM SIM. Does anyone know if Cloud9 aims to international customers? Will they ship their prepaid SIMs abroad soon? terminals: Samsung: Galaxy S5 DuoS (G900FD); BLU: Win HD LTE; Nokia: 1200; Asus: Fonepad 7 ME372CG; Huawei data: E3372, Vodafone R201, K3765, E1762; postpaid: O2 on Business XL; prepaid: DE: Aldi Talk, Lidl; UK: 3; BG: MTel, vivacom; RU: MTS; RS: MTS; UAE: du Tourist SIM; INT'L: toggle mobile VoIP: sipgate.de (German DID); sipgate.co.uk (British DID); ukddi.com (British DID); sipcall.ch (Swiss DID); megafon.bg (Bulgarian DID); InterVoip.com

	(#10)
RTuesday (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Expert Posts: 344 Join Date: 28 Mar 2005 Location: See flag Country:	28-08-2007, 13:08 Just an update on the (lack of) progress at Cloud9. I tried it out roaming in the UK/France/Spain recently. Wouldn't log on to a single network anywhere, i.e. no roaming. I emailed them to complain about this and (what a surprise) got a roaming update SMS after I got home. No idea if that's made a difference as I haven't been away since. However, I also got a reply to my complaint email - after 4 weeks! - where they completely failed to understand the problem (assumed I was dialling wrong). They sent their reply email from an address which bounces when replied to. In a word, AVOID. Makes Yackie look professional.