Use of own femtocel abroad?

petkow · **Use of own femtocel abroad? -** 29-01-2010, 16:06

On another forum, I recently read that Vodafone UK are now selling inexpensive 3G femtocells that users who live in poor coverage areas can use, providing that they have a decent broadband connection (1Mbps).

See: Mobile Phone Signal Rescue Stories - Vodafone Sure Signal

The one off cost for the hub is as little as 50GBP (58 Euros) if you are on the right UK contract or 120 if not. I think a while ago I read about other providers selling these in other countries, but I think the costs were significantly higher.

My question is whether there are implications of taking one of these abroad in order to make a local network of your normal home cellular network but in another country! Like UMA, this could obviously be very useful to people who have a second home (or home-office) abroad. Of course, I am assuming that the Vodafone branded hub only works with Vodafone UK, and also that it is likely to have some form of UK IP address filtering. However, there are good ways around the second issue at least. Any thoughts?

inquisitor · 29-01-2010, 19:49

I think operators will try to prevent subscribers to run their femto routers abroad, because that would cause legal implications due to the lack of license for the corresponding country and further that would mean losing roaming revenues.
At least Sprint's femto router has a GPS-receiver integrated, which is vital due to the synchronous timing necessary on CDMA-networks but according to some reports on the web GPS is not only used to get the exact GPS-based time on these routers, but it will also prevent use outside the US.
I don't know if UMTS-based femto routers do have a GPS-chip, but I think UMTS-operators will also try their best to prevent usage abroad. Alternatively to GPS this could be done by geolocating IP-addresses (this could be bypassed by VPN) and/or detecting if foreign 2G/3G networks are available.
Also check this article: Do you know where your femtocell is? - Femto Hub Blog - Femtohub.com | The Center For Femtocell News

Stu · 30-01-2010, 01:50

Femtojack?

inquisitor · 30-01-2010, 11:46

Femtojack is completely useless in my eyes. Firstly it's illegal in most countries and secondly it just converts GSM into VoIP, while you need to use a third-party VoIP-provider. You'll neither receive calls for your mobile number, nor can you use your GSM-operator's rates for outgoing calls.
So why not just use a VoIP- and WiFi-capable phone and place VoIP-calls directly over WiFi instead of additionally running a laptop with that Femtojack dongle?

Stu · 31-01-2010, 21:59

I'm definitely not going to be the first one in line for the product, I just thought I'd mention it.

petkow · 01-02-2010, 01:24

Thanks for the replies. I suppose carrying one of these abroad could launch a nice spectrum war! This is probably also the reason why the Picocells on cruise ships and aircraft are only activated once the vessel is out of range of 'terrestrial' GSM.

The GPS in the femtocell is a good idea, but I don't think the Vodafone femtocell has one. One of the case studies on their website tells the story of a guy who lives in a basement! Apart from his lack of GSM and UMTS, I doubt he will pick up GPS satellites down there either!

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	(#1 (permalink))
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 683 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	Use of own femtocel abroad? - 29-01-2010, 16:06 On another forum, I recently read that Vodafone UK are now selling inexpensive 3G femtocells that users who live in poor coverage areas can use, providing that they have a decent broadband connection (1Mbps). See: Mobile Phone Signal Rescue Stories - Vodafone Sure Signal The one off cost for the hub is as little as 50GBP (58 Euros) if you are on the right UK contract or 120 if not. I think a while ago I read about other providers selling these in other countries, but I think the costs were significantly higher. My question is whether there are implications of taking one of these abroad in order to make a local network of your normal home cellular network but in another country! Like UMA, this could obviously be very useful to people who have a second home (or home-office) abroad. Of course, I am assuming that the Vodafone branded hub only works with Vodafone UK, and also that it is likely to have some form of UK IP address filtering. However, there are good ways around the second issue at least. Any thoughts?

	(#2 (permalink))
inquisitor (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Specialist Posts: 884 Join Date: 15 Nov 2006 Country:	29-01-2010, 19:49 I think operators will try to prevent subscribers to run their femto routers abroad, because that would cause legal implications due to the lack of license for the corresponding country and further that would mean losing roaming revenues. At least Sprint's femto router has a GPS-receiver integrated, which is vital due to the synchronous timing necessary on CDMA-networks but according to some reports on the web GPS is not only used to get the exact GPS-based time on these routers, but it will also prevent use outside the US. I don't know if UMTS-based femto routers do have a GPS-chip, but I think UMTS-operators will also try their best to prevent usage abroad. Alternatively to GPS this could be done by geolocating IP-addresses (this could be bypassed by VPN) and/or detecting if foreign 2G/3G networks are available. Also check this article: Do you know where your femtocell is? - Femto Hub Blog - Femtohub.com \| The Center For Femtocell News terminals: Motorola: Milestone, F3; Nokia: N95, 1208; BenQ-Siemens: S68; Huawei: E5, E1823, E1762, K3715, K3765, EM770 in Asus Eee PC 901 GO; Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X postpaid: DE: O2 Blue 100 Flex; prepaid: DE: Lidl, Fonic, Tchibo, solomo pro, congstar, T-Mobile, Vodafone, otelo; CH: Swisscom Natel Easy BeFree, Sunrise go dayflat, Lebara; OK,-mobile; UK: T-Mobile, 3; NL: T-Mobile; ES: Vodafone, MÁSmovil, simyo; HU: T-Mobile; BG: MTel, Globul, vivatel, Petrol mobile; INT'L: none

	(#3 (permalink))
Stu (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Specialist Posts: 869 Join Date: 11 Feb 2004 Location: Dubai (& Detroit) Country:	30-01-2010, 01:50 Femtojack?

	(#4 (permalink))
inquisitor (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Specialist Posts: 884 Join Date: 15 Nov 2006 Country:	30-01-2010, 11:46 Femtojack is completely useless in my eyes. Firstly it's illegal in most countries and secondly it just converts GSM into VoIP, while you need to use a third-party VoIP-provider. You'll neither receive calls for your mobile number, nor can you use your GSM-operator's rates for outgoing calls. So why not just use a VoIP- and WiFi-capable phone and place VoIP-calls directly over WiFi instead of additionally running a laptop with that Femtojack dongle? terminals: Motorola: Milestone, F3; Nokia: N95, 1208; BenQ-Siemens: S68; Huawei: E5, E1823, E1762, K3715, K3765, EM770 in Asus Eee PC 901 GO; Qualcomm Gobi 2000 in Sony VAIO VPC-Z12X9E/X postpaid: DE: O2 Blue 100 Flex; prepaid: DE: Lidl, Fonic, Tchibo, solomo pro, congstar, T-Mobile, Vodafone, otelo; CH: Swisscom Natel Easy BeFree, Sunrise go dayflat, Lebara; OK,-mobile; UK: T-Mobile, 3; NL: T-Mobile; ES: Vodafone, MÁSmovil, simyo; HU: T-Mobile; BG: MTel, Globul, vivatel, Petrol mobile; INT'L: none

	(#5 (permalink))
Stu (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Specialist Posts: 869 Join Date: 11 Feb 2004 Location: Dubai (& Detroit) Country:	31-01-2010, 21:59 I'm definitely not going to be the first one in line for the product, I just thought I'd mention it.

	(#6 (permalink))
petkow (Offline) Senior Member Prepaid Pioneer Posts: 683 Join Date: 01 Aug 2006 Location: Madrid Country:	01-02-2010, 01:24 Thanks for the replies. I suppose carrying one of these abroad could launch a nice spectrum war! This is probably also the reason why the Picocells on cruise ships and aircraft are only activated once the vessel is out of range of 'terrestrial' GSM. The GPS in the femtocell is a good idea, but I don't think the Vodafone femtocell has one. One of the case studies on their website tells the story of a guy who lives in a basement! Apart from his lack of GSM and UMTS, I doubt he will pick up GPS satellites down there either!